Questions for the Regional pilots
09-19-2007 | 10:41 AM
#11
Sitting on the sidelines
Joined: Aug 2007
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Another pilot, another solution.
I concur with the notion of getting some turbine PIC time and ATP hours as quickly as possible if you want to go to a major. The right Part 135 job could do that. But rather than thinking of the majors as the ultimate goal, why not think fractional? Two years at a regional will get you to 2500 total time and a great shot with NetJets or FlexJet. Great QOL, reasonable upgrade times, chance to make $150K a year before retirement. They like military experience - but the real emphasis is on customer service experience. So try to get a flying job that gets you some face time with passengers.
Good luck.
Go Navy, Beat Army.
I concur with the notion of getting some turbine PIC time and ATP hours as quickly as possible if you want to go to a major. The right Part 135 job could do that. But rather than thinking of the majors as the ultimate goal, why not think fractional? Two years at a regional will get you to 2500 total time and a great shot with NetJets or FlexJet. Great QOL, reasonable upgrade times, chance to make $150K a year before retirement. They like military experience - but the real emphasis is on customer service experience. So try to get a flying job that gets you some face time with passengers.
Good luck.
Go Navy, Beat Army.
09-19-2007 | 10:53 AM
#12
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: HMMWV in Iraq
Lots of good input here, thank you.
Couple things I'm looking at, 1 is trying to get the golden handshake when I get out next summer. If that doesn't work out for me, then yes, I'd be asking for Meridian or P'cola just for the 2 years max hours no deploying and hopefully no IA, pending wife approval of course. She's pretty set on me getting out next summer regardless of what the board says. 2nd think I'm looking at is the hiring cycle. I know its going to be going on, or at least projected to be going on, for a good 5 years or more. That said, I also know if I do this I need to get in as early as I can. If I take PCS orders I'm locked for 2 years flying T-45's wheras I could suck up the regional thing for less than that and come out ahead.
I absolutely plan on going reserve. First choice would be grey pointy nose, second orange and white pointy nose. Reason is while I'm racking up the hours with the regional, I can rack up PIC time with the reserves. I'd also like to do reserve C-9's since they are local, but if I don't have the PIC to get hired by the major's, then the C-9 won't help me for a good year and half or so, perhaps sooner. This isn't ideal, but if I got in with the reserve training command component, I could bum to the max manning days allowed, or activate for 90 day stints, both of which would bump PIC time and with mil leave offset the RJ pay. BUT it would be time away from home. Of course, if I got on with AWAC and reserve TRACOM, I could have the local RJ job and commute to reserves, and once I got hired with the majors, re-apply to the local reserve unit and commute to the new domicile.
At some point in the next 4 months or so I'm going to find out what will happen to me next summer and shortly afterwards I can start putting out applications for both airlines and reserves. Right now I'm looking at 346 days until the current pay check stops, and everybody says you need to plan a good 6-12 months out for what you will do next.
I think I have a lot of good options, its just a matter of trying to pick the one that will get me where I want to go the fastest. And I'm facing the volatility that where I want to go today isn't necessarily going to be any good 2-3 years from now. Just like the odds of getting fighters out of flight school, this whole deal just seems to be a big crap shoot. You don't necessarily get what you want, and what you want isn't necessarily good.
Couple things I'm looking at, 1 is trying to get the golden handshake when I get out next summer. If that doesn't work out for me, then yes, I'd be asking for Meridian or P'cola just for the 2 years max hours no deploying and hopefully no IA, pending wife approval of course. She's pretty set on me getting out next summer regardless of what the board says. 2nd think I'm looking at is the hiring cycle. I know its going to be going on, or at least projected to be going on, for a good 5 years or more. That said, I also know if I do this I need to get in as early as I can. If I take PCS orders I'm locked for 2 years flying T-45's wheras I could suck up the regional thing for less than that and come out ahead.
I absolutely plan on going reserve. First choice would be grey pointy nose, second orange and white pointy nose. Reason is while I'm racking up the hours with the regional, I can rack up PIC time with the reserves. I'd also like to do reserve C-9's since they are local, but if I don't have the PIC to get hired by the major's, then the C-9 won't help me for a good year and half or so, perhaps sooner. This isn't ideal, but if I got in with the reserve training command component, I could bum to the max manning days allowed, or activate for 90 day stints, both of which would bump PIC time and with mil leave offset the RJ pay. BUT it would be time away from home. Of course, if I got on with AWAC and reserve TRACOM, I could have the local RJ job and commute to reserves, and once I got hired with the majors, re-apply to the local reserve unit and commute to the new domicile.
At some point in the next 4 months or so I'm going to find out what will happen to me next summer and shortly afterwards I can start putting out applications for both airlines and reserves. Right now I'm looking at 346 days until the current pay check stops, and everybody says you need to plan a good 6-12 months out for what you will do next.
I think I have a lot of good options, its just a matter of trying to pick the one that will get me where I want to go the fastest. And I'm facing the volatility that where I want to go today isn't necessarily going to be any good 2-3 years from now. Just like the odds of getting fighters out of flight school, this whole deal just seems to be a big crap shoot. You don't necessarily get what you want, and what you want isn't necessarily good.
09-19-2007 | 01:13 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
I think I have a lot of good options, its just a matter of trying to pick the one that will get me where I want to go the fastest. And I'm facing the volatility that where I want to go today isn't necessarily going to be any good 2-3 years from now. Just like the odds of getting fighters out of flight school, this whole deal just seems to be a big crap shoot. You don't necessarily get what you want, and what you want isn't necessarily good.
Thanks
09-19-2007 | 01:35 PM
#15
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
No problem. I'm guessing that since you are a FAC, that you are a Marine F-18 pilot?
If so, I just have a few questions. I wasn't military. Do all Marine aviators have to do a tour as a FAC/TAC, or just the ones that flew aircraft with guns/weapons on them? Also, is the FAC tour always done towards the end of your flying career or can it be done at any time?
Thanks.
If so, I just have a few questions. I wasn't military. Do all Marine aviators have to do a tour as a FAC/TAC, or just the ones that flew aircraft with guns/weapons on them? Also, is the FAC tour always done towards the end of your flying career or can it be done at any time?
Thanks.
09-19-2007 | 02:47 PM
#16
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: G550 Captain
How long have you been flying for the regionals, how long do you intend to keep flying for the regionals, and what is the thresh-hold you are looking for to make the transition to the next step?
The reason I ask is two-fold.
First is I'm a military guy stuck in a non-flying billet before I get out. I have roughly 1060 TT, 870 ME, 780 PIC, mostly FA-18. The military conversion factor (each company is slightly different) puts me at roughly 1200 TT and 870 PIC. Although that puts me at the mins for a Major such as Delta, it doesn't necessarily make me competitive for hire, particularly since I haven't flown in 3 years. I find myself wondering if I don't get an interview or hired by someone like Delta, what my options are. Usually it comes back to getting a regional job for a year or so to bump up my hours by 500, which puts me solidly over the 1500 actual TT, gives me the option of an ATP, and I'd have the mins for several more companies in the majors, and also the ever popular UPS/Fedex. BUT, I know just having the mins doesn't necessarily make you competitive for an interview.
When I look at the hours a lot of you are getting, I'm seeing numbers like 6 months reserve with not much for hours, then bumping up to 80-85 per month with a line, which quickly puts you at or over 500 hours for year 1. Regardless of how you got your initial education, once you get on with a regional, I see you picking up 1500 ME within 2 years, and with upgrade times, you're starting to see PIC around years 2-3. Say year 3. By years 4 or 5 you should have roughly 2500 ME and a good 1000-1500 ME PIC.
Second reason is based on those very loose assumptions, and is this... the majority of the conversation in this forum is based on getting hired to the regionals as a stepping stone to the major's, but I keep reading references to a 10 year regional CA. I assume up until now the option to move to the major's simply wasn't there because they weren't hiring, but now that they are, I would assume most guys with 5 years or more at the regionals have at least the mins to apply to the majors. If they don't, why not? If they do and choose not to move, why? Is QOL really that much more significant that its not worth giving up for a couple years until you at least break even again yet alone move ahead beyond that?
I cannot stress enough that I am not trying to come across as insulting or condescending in any way, I just really want to know what I might be getting myself into. I'm looking at this thinking I might just need to do a year or two with the regionals, which I prepared for, but beyond that, I'd like to see that I have the option to move up should that be my choice. My fear is that I'm missing something and I might actually need significantly more than 2 years which at this point in my life I am not financially prepared for. The optimist in me thinks I might even be looking at something as quick as 6-9 months with the regionals for mins and currency, combined with some reserve flying time, and after that it would just be adding to it as I continue to apply to the major's.
Thanks in advance
The reason I ask is two-fold.
First is I'm a military guy stuck in a non-flying billet before I get out. I have roughly 1060 TT, 870 ME, 780 PIC, mostly FA-18. The military conversion factor (each company is slightly different) puts me at roughly 1200 TT and 870 PIC. Although that puts me at the mins for a Major such as Delta, it doesn't necessarily make me competitive for hire, particularly since I haven't flown in 3 years. I find myself wondering if I don't get an interview or hired by someone like Delta, what my options are. Usually it comes back to getting a regional job for a year or so to bump up my hours by 500, which puts me solidly over the 1500 actual TT, gives me the option of an ATP, and I'd have the mins for several more companies in the majors, and also the ever popular UPS/Fedex. BUT, I know just having the mins doesn't necessarily make you competitive for an interview.
When I look at the hours a lot of you are getting, I'm seeing numbers like 6 months reserve with not much for hours, then bumping up to 80-85 per month with a line, which quickly puts you at or over 500 hours for year 1. Regardless of how you got your initial education, once you get on with a regional, I see you picking up 1500 ME within 2 years, and with upgrade times, you're starting to see PIC around years 2-3. Say year 3. By years 4 or 5 you should have roughly 2500 ME and a good 1000-1500 ME PIC.
Second reason is based on those very loose assumptions, and is this... the majority of the conversation in this forum is based on getting hired to the regionals as a stepping stone to the major's, but I keep reading references to a 10 year regional CA. I assume up until now the option to move to the major's simply wasn't there because they weren't hiring, but now that they are, I would assume most guys with 5 years or more at the regionals have at least the mins to apply to the majors. If they don't, why not? If they do and choose not to move, why? Is QOL really that much more significant that its not worth giving up for a couple years until you at least break even again yet alone move ahead beyond that?
I cannot stress enough that I am not trying to come across as insulting or condescending in any way, I just really want to know what I might be getting myself into. I'm looking at this thinking I might just need to do a year or two with the regionals, which I prepared for, but beyond that, I'd like to see that I have the option to move up should that be my choice. My fear is that I'm missing something and I might actually need significantly more than 2 years which at this point in my life I am not financially prepared for. The optimist in me thinks I might even be looking at something as quick as 6-9 months with the regionals for mins and currency, combined with some reserve flying time, and after that it would just be adding to it as I continue to apply to the major's.
Thanks in advance
If I were you I would pick a regional that has a good reputation for decent QOL and go there to beef up your turbine time and 121 experience. You will be glad you did because more than a few military pilots find the transition to the Part 121 flying world from the military difficult. By flying for a regional, you will be a step ahead of other guys just getting out with no civilian commercial flying experience.
In today's market, and because of your background in flying tactical jet fighters, I would say you would be almost guaranteed a jet slot if you applied to regionals even if you did not fly in the last three years.
09-19-2007 | 02:54 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
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From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
If I were you I would pick a regional that has a good reputation for decent QOL and go there to beef up your turbine time and 121 experience. You will be glad you did because more than a few military pilots find the transition to the Part 121 flying world from the military difficult. By flying for a regional, you will be a step ahead of other guys just getting out with no civilian commercial flying experience.
In today's market, and because of your background in flying tactical jet fighters, I would say you would be almost guaranteed a jet slot if you applied to regionals even if you did not fly in the last three years.
09-19-2007 | 03:00 PM
#18
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: G550 Captain
Learn to read. my comment has nothing to do with who makes better airline pilots. I am a veteran, and I made no statements whether military pilots or civilian pilots are better. We all like to fly that is why we chose this profession. My advice concerns improving ones chances of getting picked up by majors. Go pick an argument somewhere else.
09-19-2007 | 03:09 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
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From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Learn to read. my comment has nothing to do with who makes better airline pilots. I am a veteran, and I made no statements whether military pilots or civilian pilots are better. We all like to fly that is why we chose this profession. My advice concerns improving ones chances of getting picked up by majors. Go pick an argument somewhere else.
Don't you just love when people tell you "learn how to read", but can't seem to understand sarcasm or humor when it's put into written form?
Good grief, learn to take a joke and get a sense of humor man.
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