I think there are too many former regional pilots at CAL now for folks to expect that pilot group to just roll over to management's desires for outsourcing aircraft. Demographics there have shifted quite a bit since Contract 02...and people have seen the "damage" done to Delta and US Airways mainline pilot groups with "large small jets" being outsourced.

Jobs are more important than a few extra dollars an hour...and those small narrowbody jobs would be at risk with 70+ seats at Express.

It'd take a pretty farkin' big carrot for those folks to give up turbojet scope to the size of 175s, IMO.

But with a large number of retirements coming up and the carrot is retirement, what do you think those guys care about?

I think you've said all you need to right there. Maybe you should just stop paying your union dues right now. Its that attitude of "it's out of my hands, I do just do whats best for me and the rest of you be damned" that has gotten us where we are at today. I have heard that exact same argument come out of the mouths of SCABS at CAL. "I just did what I had to do for my career/my family/my ego/whatever and this opportunity was there so I took it. It's not my fault the old Continental pilots went on strike." You hear the same BS come pouring out of the mouths of the morons at GoJet. Don't know about y'all but it makes me a little sick.

So you think by saying "I don't like regionals flying larger than 50 seat aircraft for carriers" means I should do some sort of silent protest and not take the upgrade? As if management would actually even take notice. All I can do in my current situation is be supportive of the CAL group and hope their union takes care of this. This hypothetical situation of yours is not here yet so I'm not having to deal with it. I hope I never do. If the only way you could upgrade in your company was to go into the left seat of a 70 seater would you refuse and stay as an FO making crappy pay or would you take it? Give me an honest answer on that one.

If the union lets it happen then THEY let it happen. GoJets is a whole different story. Once the companies agree on it then that's it. There was no alter ego creation and people being scabs flocking to support it. The union and management will have agreed to make it happen. How are you stabbing someone in the back once they've agreed on it? Like I said. I hope the union doesn't let CAL get away with it.

If XJT had 170's on property based in your home you're telling me you skip upgrade, sit there as an FO making half the pay, and double leg commute to work before taking the upgrade as some type of silent protest? If you don't like my response then tough. Honestly I'd rather fly a 145 as I actually enjoy FLYING and since we don't have ACARS the captains in them usually pull more. The situation you tried to deal me is a sandbag attempt to make me out to be something I'm not and that's a lowballer scab. Now you answer your exact questions honestly. I doubt ANYONE could do it any different.

i think everyone is getting on my nerves......and I am getting on theirs!, lets take a couple posts of silence to just reflect!

I heavily edited several posts is this thread. You guys need to lay off the personal attacks.

If I understand correctly CAL doesn't have a DBP to liquidate, as Lorenzo got rid of it a long time ago. Again, if I understand correctly, they have a rather well funded DCP. In the '02 concessionary contract one of the things the pilot group got in trade for their pay cuts was a proviso to the effect that CAL could not post a profit until CAL had made a 500M contribution to the pension fund.

There isn't a lot of leverage CAL has over the retirement fund, its all in the individual pilot's names, like a super 401k.

They might give up scope for the end of PBS. I haven't heard anyone at CAL say anything good about it.

But I doubt it. While CAL has been growing mainline everybody else has been growing their regional partners. If they give up scope, growth at CAL will screetch to a halt; they'll start parking the 737-300s and -500s, and Republic will pick up all that short haul single aisle flying, on their way to becoming the worlds largest airline.

Some facts of life:

1. The CAL pilot group ain't letting go of it's scope clause. If they did, I would call them all stupid. Everyone else should too. The only way you should ever see a 170/175 with CAL colors on it is if two mainline pilots are sitting up front.

2. CHQ didn't TAKE your flying at XJT. CAL took it, then put it up for bid. We got it. If we didn't get it, someone else would. Would you rather have a company with no union work those flights?

3. CAL will take more XJT flying. And they will probably give it to someone other than CHQ. And then you guys can all blame them for stealing your jobs. I don't think CAL is really interested in having all of their regional flying hinge on one or even two companies.

4. XJT will begin flying for other mainline carriers. They already started for DAL. I would expect to see them as front-runners in any RFP's should they come out. Of course, that just makes them closer and closer to being exactly what CHQ is now.

My long post is gone...........:confused:I dont think I said anything too bad.........:o

All I can say after wasting 5 minutes of my life reading this thread is shame on you if you believe that is ok for CAL to get rid of scope! Shame on you if you're ok with flying 70-90 seaters that belong to mainline! And shame on you if you think your actions only affect your career.

If you support getting rid of scope clause at CAL, well, you're no different than a gojets pilot.