Originally Posted by aerospacepilot

Rickdb, atpwannabe, and anyone else considering ATP,

Training at ATP IS NOT faster than training at an FBO. The nice part about training at an FBO is you can train at ANY pace you want. So if you want to get your instrument-MEI in 89 days, you can do that (faster than ATP). If you want to get your instrument-MEI in 120, you can do that. 10 months, you can do that. Want to take a weekend off to go skiing? Want to take a weekend off to spend with your wife/family/gf/friends, you can do that. At an FBO, you set the pace. There is nothing saying you cannot go as fast or FASTER than training at ATP. The pace is up to you.

When you ask an FBO how long it takes to go from private to MEI, they will quote you how long people usually take to get those ratings, going at their OWN pace. That is why there is this vicious rumor that training at an FBO is slow. Honestly, if you want to fly two 1.5 hour lessons each day (3hrs a day), you can go private to MEI in 90 days (as opposed to the 150 days as quoted by ATP). Personally I think both of these are way too fast. While I realize you are a little older, take your time with flight training. You are paying tens of thousands of dollars for it, you should at least LEARN IT. If you do the 150 day fast track at ATP, you will not learn everything that you should. And this will come back to haunt you at some point in your flying career.

If you train at a local FBO instead of ATP, you will save TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. My estimate for training at a local FBO with reasonable prices is about $35,000. You don't believe me, then send me some rates at your local FBO (1980 C-152, C-172, Piper Warrior, some complex airplane, Piper Seminole, or related aircraft), tell me how much instructor costs, tell me what the monthly dues/joining fees are, and I will give you a darn good estimate. And I believe it will be close to $35,000. At ATP, you will pay $64,000 for the EXACT SAME flight training. That's an extra $29,000 you don't have to spend. Lets think of some things you can buy with that extra $29,000 you will save from NOT going to ATP.
Take a two week trip to Europe.
Buy a new iPhone and service plan
Buy a brand new flat screen plasma TV
Buy a brand new top of the line computer
Eat out at a fancy restaurant once a week for an entire year
Take a 7 day cruise in the carribean
And still have over $10,000 left over to spend at your discretion.

Don't throw away $29,000 extra to get the same flight training you can receive at a local FBO.

Go to a local FBO. Train at your own pace. Fly when you want and don't fly when you don't want to. ATP should not own you. A local FBO does not own you. You can make your decision about how fast you want to train. I say take about 8 months (instead of 5 months at ATP). Soak in that knowledge. Enjoy your training. And above all, save TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS

Originally Posted by rickdb

My friend who is a pilot for SkyWest said dont believe flight schools who tell you that you cannot complete your training in a relatively short period because they are just trying to milk more money out of your pocket. .

Originally Posted by HercDriver130

Not to argue with with you SAAB.. but the military has a set schedule... meet it or wash out. Very little slack in the schedule in the time when I went thru...so yes I think schedules can be met..... course the difference is.... how many guys have FBO's washed out cause they just couldnt hack it? VERY few I would suggest... they just keep flying on the hopes they will GET it some day.... Hell I recently was at a flight school and there was a student there who was on HOUR 33 before he soloed a C172........

Originally Posted by SAABaroowski

I gotta step in here, I know when I was an instructor, myself as well as the owner of my flight school, made it crystal clear that there is no set time for a license and we "guarantee" you nothing. Some people may take longer to learn certain things and I think you would be doing them a great disservice just to get them done. How an instructor can sign someone off for a solo, or check-ride who is not ready is beyond me. Some people seem to forget that if and when your students engine quits, when his family is in the back, its your training that hes is going to rely on, cause as cheesy as it sounds, their life may depend on it! You have to wonder about a school that "guarantees" you anything other than a safe a/c and a knowledgeable instructor. How can you say someone will be ready in a fixed amount of time, its flying an airplane..............

Originally Posted by rickdb

Aerospace Pilot,

I definitely understand where you are coming from. My friend who is a pilot for SkyWest said dont believe flight schools who tell you that you cannot complete your training in a relatively short period because they are just trying to milk more money out of your pocket. However, like I said before the only reason I am looking at ATP is because of the ME hours and cost. No flight school here in Chicago quoted me a price (with as many ME hours) nearly as competitive as ATP. I asked my friend who is a pilot at SkyWest, and he said ATP is a good school, and pretty competitive on price. If I were to go to an FBO in another state than I would have to pay rent (ATP includes housing in their price) and that would cost me extra money. Thanks for the insight, but after doing my due dilligence, ATP has a pretty good deal. At local flight schools I was quoted the following:

Palwaukee Flyers Deerfield, IL-$35-45K-0 to CFI (No ME instructor or rating)
API Flight School-Chicago, IL-40K-0 to CFI (they only fly single engine aircraft)
Windy City Flyers-Palwaukee Airport-$57k-0 to CFI (Maybe 35 ME hours)
American Flyers-Dupage Airport-$67K-0 to CFI (50 ME hours)

ATPs cost from "0-hero" is 64K and includes the following:
single/ME-commercial rating
single/ME instructor
regional jet training
housing
books, flight plans, etc
PPL through CFI
Total of 190 ME hours

Regardless, the training to become a pilot is expensive. Based on the information I provided, do you see where I am coming from.

Originally Posted by LeoSV

If they're not ready, won't they most likely fail the checkrides? It is my understanding that in the 90 day program, you eat, drink, and sleep flying the whole time, and if it goes over by a few days, or if you have to go over the 200 hours, then they allow for that. My friend that went to ATP said that there was a student that just wasn't soaking in the information, so they ended up asking him to leave and refunded most of his money. The instructors there are still instructors, so I'm sure they won't be signing people off that are not ready since they know it goes on their record. Plus, how many incidents have there been of ATP grads screwing up in the 121 world? I'm sure not more than average. (I guess that can't be proven, so it's a moot point) The argument can be made that it's up to the individual. The school itself teaches what it needs to teach, it's up the pilot to use it wisely, and that includes not being a hero when you finally get hired on as an FO at a 121 job.

Originally Posted by Slice

Are you telling me you can't find a better deal than $336 per hour to fly a twin? (64000/190)

Originally Posted by SAABaroowski

1) Well, thats because there are Captains babysitting these 500hr F/O's
2) There is more to flying than being a 121 pilot............

PS this has nothing to with ATP graduates, just the mentality that the minimum is "all you need"