Do I Have A Future Here?
10-29-2007, 09:00 AM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 40
[quote=SkyHigh;254387]
Real people work real jobs and get real wages. Pilot don't. Flying is a hobby job and gets paid as such. Most of your compensation is because you guys are supposedly having fun.
SkyHigh
quote]
Hobby? Flying a C150 is a hobby, flying an airliner, prop or jet, big or small is not a hobby. Sure its fun, some of the time, but it is not a game. It is a structured professional environment in which we provide a service for compensation. Thats a job, and why should I be penalized because I enjoy it. Want me to wear a chalice so it hurts? Maybe that way you'll feel better because I'm in pain when I get a raise.
Tinkering with pipes may be a hobby for some do it yourselfers out there, some plumbers probably enjoy part of their jobs, does that mean they deserve less compensation because they enjoy their work?
Professionals who take on loads of responsibility, and sacrifice their home lives deserve more than the less than adequate compensation we all get. To penalize someone for enjoying what they do makes no sense. I enjoy my job, and it I'm a better person because of it, if you have lots and lots of money, and hate your "real" job, good for you but thats not how I choose to live.
Real people work real jobs and get real wages. Pilot don't. Flying is a hobby job and gets paid as such. Most of your compensation is because you guys are supposedly having fun.
SkyHigh
quote]
Hobby? Flying a C150 is a hobby, flying an airliner, prop or jet, big or small is not a hobby. Sure its fun, some of the time, but it is not a game. It is a structured professional environment in which we provide a service for compensation. Thats a job, and why should I be penalized because I enjoy it. Want me to wear a chalice so it hurts? Maybe that way you'll feel better because I'm in pain when I get a raise.
Tinkering with pipes may be a hobby for some do it yourselfers out there, some plumbers probably enjoy part of their jobs, does that mean they deserve less compensation because they enjoy their work?
Professionals who take on loads of responsibility, and sacrifice their home lives deserve more than the less than adequate compensation we all get. To penalize someone for enjoying what they do makes no sense. I enjoy my job, and it I'm a better person because of it, if you have lots and lots of money, and hate your "real" job, good for you but thats not how I choose to live.
10-29-2007, 09:07 AM
#42
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Flyboy8784
Rumor has it that "Big News" is dropping tomorrow.....one of the captains i flew last week with has friends in Appleton...who called him and told him. Both ALPA and AFA met up in there this past week....so we'll see if anything happens
10-29-2007, 09:07 AM
#43
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Compensation
Pilots do not get paid well since they will accept fun in place of wages.
There isn't a plumber in the land who would crawl under a house for poverty wages. Dentists would never take even the first step towards a career unless they had a strong reason to think that they will get highly paid as a result.
Pilots will fist fight over a job that pays 18K. Then they will sell their days off to the company in order to make a living.
There was an ad in the local newspaper seeking applicants to the post office. The ad claimed that wages were between 46 and 56K per year. Not much but not bad either when you consider that they are getting a solid retirement, good benefits and only had to pass a civil service test to get in.
It is simple business. Why pay more for something you can get for less? Pilots will continue to blow a fortune on training and show up for jobs that pay less than the local street cop, mailman or garbageman. Management can take away retirement, days off and pay and the pilots will still show up.
Enjoy that sunrise departure because it is costing you a lot.
Skyhigh
There isn't a plumber in the land who would crawl under a house for poverty wages. Dentists would never take even the first step towards a career unless they had a strong reason to think that they will get highly paid as a result.
Pilots will fist fight over a job that pays 18K. Then they will sell their days off to the company in order to make a living.
There was an ad in the local newspaper seeking applicants to the post office. The ad claimed that wages were between 46 and 56K per year. Not much but not bad either when you consider that they are getting a solid retirement, good benefits and only had to pass a civil service test to get in.
It is simple business. Why pay more for something you can get for less? Pilots will continue to blow a fortune on training and show up for jobs that pay less than the local street cop, mailman or garbageman. Management can take away retirement, days off and pay and the pilots will still show up.
Enjoy that sunrise departure because it is costing you a lot.
Skyhigh
10-29-2007, 09:14 AM
#44
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Life
[QUOTE=LabMonkey76;254430]
Life is about choices. You can't have it all. Most Dentists hate their jobs but they do it because it pays well. I think that some jobs are fun and others provide monetary satisfaction. Rarely do they both come in the same package.
Flying is not a real job since people will do incredible sacrifices for much less than fair compensation. The fun factor is a huge part of pilot compensation. It is a fact that college educated people will trade wages and benefits for an interesting sounding job. The working class does not have that problem. They know the value of earning a real income and are prepared to work hard at mundane jobs to get it.
SkyHigh
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Real people work real jobs and get real wages. Pilot don't. Flying is a hobby job and gets paid as such. Most of your compensation is because you guys are supposedly having fun.
SkyHigh
quote]
Hobby? Flying a C150 is a hobby, flying an airliner, prop or jet, big or small is not a hobby. Sure its fun, some of the time, but it is not a game. It is a structured professional environment in which we provide a service for compensation. That's a job, and why should I be penalized because I enjoy it. Want me to wear a chalice so it hurts? Maybe that way you'll feel better because I'm in pain when I get a raise.
Tinkering with pipes may be a hobby for some do it yourselfers out there, some plumbers probably enjoy part of their jobs, does that mean they deserve less compensation because they enjoy their work?
Professionals who take on loads of responsibility, and sacrifice their home lives deserve more than the less than adequate compensation we all get. To penalize someone for enjoying what they do makes no sense. I enjoy my job, and it I'm a better person because of it, if you have lots and lots of money, and hate your "real" job, good for you but thats not how I choose to live.
SkyHigh
quote]
Hobby? Flying a C150 is a hobby, flying an airliner, prop or jet, big or small is not a hobby. Sure its fun, some of the time, but it is not a game. It is a structured professional environment in which we provide a service for compensation. That's a job, and why should I be penalized because I enjoy it. Want me to wear a chalice so it hurts? Maybe that way you'll feel better because I'm in pain when I get a raise.
Tinkering with pipes may be a hobby for some do it yourselfers out there, some plumbers probably enjoy part of their jobs, does that mean they deserve less compensation because they enjoy their work?
Professionals who take on loads of responsibility, and sacrifice their home lives deserve more than the less than adequate compensation we all get. To penalize someone for enjoying what they do makes no sense. I enjoy my job, and it I'm a better person because of it, if you have lots and lots of money, and hate your "real" job, good for you but thats not how I choose to live.
Life is about choices. You can't have it all. Most Dentists hate their jobs but they do it because it pays well. I think that some jobs are fun and others provide monetary satisfaction. Rarely do they both come in the same package.
Flying is not a real job since people will do incredible sacrifices for much less than fair compensation. The fun factor is a huge part of pilot compensation. It is a fact that college educated people will trade wages and benefits for an interesting sounding job. The working class does not have that problem. They know the value of earning a real income and are prepared to work hard at mundane jobs to get it.
SkyHigh
10-29-2007, 09:19 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 170 babysitter
Posts: 417
I'd love to take an opinion poll out on the streets to see how many folks think being a pilot isn't a real job rather than the opinion of one disgruntled former hack pilot.
10-29-2007, 09:23 AM
#46
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
There was an ad in the local newspaper seeking applicants to the post office. The ad claimed that wages were between 46 and 56K per year. Not much but not bad either when you consider that they are getting a solid retirement, good benefits and only had to pass a civil service test to get in.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh just doesn't get this concept.
I am not saying that all pilots get acceptable pay but who the heck would WANT to work at a post office? Not only that, you will FOR SURE never make over 100K at the post office. With flying, over 100K is a possibility even if you work at certain regionals. I would think even Skyhigh would realize this....after all, I can't imagine Skyhigh thinks 56K is good money. Dude! You might have to bring your own lunch to the post office....how HUMILIATING would that be? (Skyhigh thinks pilots bringing their own food to work is "humiliating"...I wonder how he would feel driving the $1000 beater I just got rid of....Oh the humanity!) LOL!
10-29-2007, 09:25 AM
#47
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
[QUOTE=SkyHigh;254437]
Life is about choices. You can't have it all.
SkyHigh
You have to be realistic about what "all" is but that attitude right there is why you are limited in your life.
Originally Posted by LabMonkey76
Life is about choices. You can't have it all.
SkyHigh
10-29-2007, 09:28 AM
#48
The NeverEnding Story
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,518
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
I wonder how he would feel driving the $1000 beater I just got rid of....
10-29-2007, 09:33 AM
#49
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Ex-Pilots
Originally Posted by Joeshmoe
I'd love to take an opinion poll out on the streets to see how many folks think being a pilot isn't a real job rather than the opinion of one disgruntled former hack pilot.
The guy who is my fencing contractor also is an ex-pilot who now is doing very well and is building himself a nice house on 40 acres. A good friend of mine from college left the military and became a Sheriffs Deputy and loves the job and fully expects to retire at 53 with a nice retirement. I could go on..
These people and many more have recognised the futility of an airline career. They did not like the idea of spending more than half of their lives in hotel rooms as tools of management. They wanted to earn a real living and have a secure future and they were willing to trade their flying dreams to get it.
I think most people when presented with the facts would ask "why would anyone want to do that job"? The pay is low the cost of entry is high and future not bright. They would advise pilots to get a real job with real compensation as the rest of America has. To accept anything less is to have a hobby job.
SkyHigh
10-29-2007, 09:40 AM
#50
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Compensation
Originally Posted by Freightpuppy
I'd sacrifice some money for a job I enjoy.
Skyhigh just doesn't get this concept.
I am not saying that all pilots get acceptable pay but who the heck would WANT to work at a post office? Not only that, you will FOR SURE never make over 100K at the post office. With flying, over 100K is a possibility even if you work at certain regionals. I would think even Skyhigh would realize this....after all, I can't imagine Skyhigh thinks 56K is good money. Dude! You might have to bring your own lunch to the post office....how HUMILIATING would that be? (Skyhigh thinks pilots bringing their own food to work is "humiliating"...I wonder how he would feel driving the $1000 beater I just got rid of....Oh the humanity!) LOL!
Skyhigh just doesn't get this concept.
I am not saying that all pilots get acceptable pay but who the heck would WANT to work at a post office? Not only that, you will FOR SURE never make over 100K at the post office. With flying, over 100K is a possibility even if you work at certain regionals. I would think even Skyhigh would realize this....after all, I can't imagine Skyhigh thinks 56K is good money. Dude! You might have to bring your own lunch to the post office....how HUMILIATING would that be? (Skyhigh thinks pilots bringing their own food to work is "humiliating"...I wonder how he would feel driving the $1000 beater I just got rid of....Oh the humanity!) LOL!
I do not think that 56K is a good living but it doesn't take a four year education and expensive training to get it either. What people at the post office get is fair compensation for a difficult job.
Pilots will lay out a fortune and then place their lives upon the alter of aviation in order to stay in the seat. They are right in there with artists, musicians and writers. A few might make it big but most will languish in poverty. It is not a real job for real people with real lives.
Skyhigh
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