How does it look?

 

Still being worked out.

 

it could turn into a stalemate. The Abritration will seal the deal, though I hope it's a deal in our favor. The bypass provision and Freeze issues could turn it into a LOA that really doesn't do anything but prevent Mesaba pilots from getting on with NWA. Dangle that carrot, just out of arms reach.

 

If they freeze pilots out of it, it will be the biggest stinker of the year. It's reasonable to bypass LCA's and sim instructors for a few months (while still giving them mainline seniority numbers at the instant of bypass).

It's completely unreasonable to lock all other pilots out for 2 years after a training event, especially when they have upgraded before the flow through was established. This is just another poorly made, morale destroying decision from a penny pinching corporate management.

If the company would simply take snapshots of the preferential flow-up bids to predict when a pilot would flow, and compare it to the bids for training into different aircraft, if a pilot would flow within 6 months (or so) of completing training, the company could simply then pay the pilot at the higher aircraft's wage (starting 8 weeks after the awarded class date), but not actually put them into training.

The company does have a point in not wanting to train someone they know they are going to loose soon. However, 2 years is way too long for any captain freeze, and it's also unfair to apply freezes to pilots who trained before the flow through was activated. I know we all agreed to the freeze, however, it was presented to us at gunpoint while in bankruptcy. We didn't really have much choice.

The solution is a reasonable (6 month or so, maybe up to 9 months or so) bypass provision for known flowees. Give them the pay their seniority will hold, but don't waste the training money on a pilot everyone knows is going to leave shortly. If NWA hiring wavers, slows, stops, put the pilot is the very next class for the equipment they were bypassed on, or allow the pilot to elect to continue the bypass while flying his current equipment at the higher equipment pay.

A win win for all. The company saves training costs, and the pilots' seniority is respected and compensated. Besides, other than the opportunity of having another type, who would really want to undergo two intensive long course training events in one year?

Having said that, it is just plain immoral and infuriating to hold hostage any pilots who upgraded, as their seniority allowed, before any flow through was finalized. It's just another disappointment from Mesaba corporate management.

 

I've gotta disagree with you on this one. Nobody should be bypassed on this flow through. With all this growth, NWA needed a lot of LCA's and FTI's to train the large number of pilots required to fly them. The people that have stepped up and accepted the roles of instructors should not be penalized for doing so.

And yeah, if they do freeze pilots out flowing, there will be very few left who are actually eligible to flow up. With out taking the time to check, I would guess around 75% of XJ CA's are seat locked right now.

Leave it to NWA/XJ mgmt to take an originally positive thing and screw with it until its not even really a benefit for the pilots anymore.

 

Yeah, I agree, no one should be passed over, for any reason.

I'm just saying that I don't think it's outrageous to hold the LCA's back for a couple of months, while not actually skipping them, at all. They get the original NWA seniority, they get the original NWA longevity, they just go to training a couple of classes later. I mean, it's the same management, the same ownership, it's a relatively simple concept to work out.

Ideally, however, no one gets bypassed.

Can you imagine newhires flowing straight through, 'cause everyone got bypassed? What a joke.

 

Luckily, that shoudn't be an issue. I believe one of the requirements to flow is that you have to currently be a CA. All newhires would then either be ineligible to flow or seat locked like the rest of us.

It really is turning into a joke though.

 

As long as the LCA and FTI's get senority and Longevity, I would be okay with them being bypassed for a specified period of time. They're hiring LCA's outside of XJ, they can't find instructors/retain them anyways. This may slow down the exodus from the training department when new job opportunities arrive. Face it mesaba is having a hard enough time staffing, losing quality LCA's would make it even harder.

 

They have not hesitated in the past to choose the best option for them at the expense of their workers, so my position is to give them the same courtesy now.

ALPA did a good job of explaining why this sucks for everyone (not just the FTI's/LCA's).

Management also wants to be able to bypass FTI’s (instructors, check airman and APD’s) for 9 months. Both the Mesaba and Northwest MEC’s are strongly opposed to this. We believe that the existing Letter of Agreement requires that Mesaba pilots flow in seniority order, and that until very recently, management did not ask for the “bypass” relief they are now proposing. In addition, we will lose relative seniority on the NWA Seniority List if management prevails. The following example shows why.

Example: In January 2008, three pilots are supposed to flow to NWA, but they are instead bypassed. NWA will place them on the NWA seniority list and back fill their positions with three non-Mesaba pilots, increasing the class by three non-Mesaba pilots. In February when three more Mesaba pilots are to flow, those three pilots are now three seniority numbers lower than they would have been because six pilots were placed on the seniority list in January instead of the three. If this type of bypassing continues, when we start flowing nine per month this knock down in seniority really adds up. Each month Mesaba pilots will lose nine numbers, so a pilot who is scheduled to flow in two years will get a seniority number 216 numbers lower than if they did not bypass pilots.

Another concern we have with the bypass is that NWA has not been willing to guarantee a bypassed Mesaba pilot with a seniority number into class when his freeze expires if NWA is no longer hiring. NWA’s position is if there is no class, they do not have to train the Mesaba pilot at that time. In this case a bypassed pilot may be on the NWA seniority list, but potentially could never actually work for NWA.

 

IMHO "Current" instructors, check airmen, etc. should not be bypassed; they accepted their responsibilities with known constraints. If the "freeze" situation option was in place when they were offered these positions, many would have declined. If they make future instructor, etc. positions suceptible to a nine month freeze, that's good business sense - called getting your money's worth out of sunk costs. Candidates have an option of turning down an offer under these conditions.

Reading this (and Mesaba new hire )thread for the last year gives the impression Mesaba is "on a roll." Many of you got jobs you never dreamed of early in your aviation career. In addition upgrades have been fast and furious with pilots getting their "base of choice" quickly. Collectively you compliment the instruction and safety programs. Now there is an issue (valid one) and demeaning adjectives are begining to fly around like a "bionic ping pong balls in a box - all energy and no direction." Let the system work it out and critize the final solution if you don't like it.

Most new hires will not flow through. They do not meet the NWA hiring minimums.