If one company were to control all of the electrical output in this country, that would be considered a monopoly, and people would be upset with that situation. However, if a union controls all the labor, then it's considered a fair market? That's being hypocritical.


Absolutely, I've been saying this from the get-go. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need a union. Obviously, this world is far from perfect and unions are needed. I am pro-union, but did find it humorous that someone would suggest operating under a union was a "fair market" system.

 

This statement betrays a lack of understanding of a union's function. A union is not supposed to be a separate entity, with interests different and distinct from its members. A union is simply the joining together of many voices into, well, a union to better express and obtain their needs. Put more succinctly, the union is US, and as such, can't 'control' labor. Labor controls its union democratically.

Now, before somebody jumps in to tell me that their union's management doesn't care about them, and runs its own show, etc., etc., I'll say that I know the above is the ideal that we try maintain, sometimes without success.

A union is not a monopoly because a monopoly can screw a vast number (effectively all) of the people for the benefit of a very few, while a union is intended for the protection of that vast number, whilst screwing only management types who believe that they deserve salaries 400X greater than their average worker (who generates the revenue). /soapbox

 

There are a lot of posts where the poster "talks" out of both sides of their mouth....my head hurts. I also don’t know of a single person here who is “lucky” to be an American or a pilot for that matter. At some point our ancestors paid the price for us to be called American’s and last I checked you have to earn your “right” to fly an aircraft. Luck isn’t a factor in any of this.

I would like to say that, I personally don't really care what a/the CEO is making. I only hope that their salary is commensurate to their performance. Supply and demand. Just like ticket prices are very low because there are a lot of seats and aircraft to fill, there are a lot of pilots in the system to employ. Should there be a decrease in ascensions entering the pilot workforce pilot pay would increase. As long as there are people willing to spend the money and time to earn their certifications and fill those entry level job openings pay will NEVER increase. Lastly, companies aren’t in business for the purpose of employing people…..

All of the aforementioned is just my opinion, which isn’t worth a damn thing…..

 

On a related note, anyone else see in today's USA today the article on illegal immigrants in the Dakota's? It had a blurb on how one dairy operator was having a hard time operating as he couldn't even attract illegal immigrants to the job - for 30K a year!!! Jesus - what has become of our profession that we do this for 20K? We are our own worst enemy.

 

Anybody else get annoyed when you see the Wal-Mart commercials, where the people say they have to shop at Wal-Mart, because the cost of living in this country is so much, funny how Wal-Mart capitalizes on the financial disaster they created for so many..........

Again, we need to look at how we got to this level, its what we accepted in negotiations, so we need to demand more, only problem is, management will drag it ourt much like ASA.............if only it was as, "sorry management you have stolen for us too long, were going on strike in 3 days"............and 3 days later, everyone goes on strike, that would be some real bargaining power..........


Don't forget, after 9/11 it didn't take management very long to place concessions on the workforce, yet 6 years later, and millions of dollars in profit,CAL is just beginning to start negotiations Although if my memory serves me correct, Larry Kellner got his $7,000,000.00 bonus quite some time ago.............

 

I suppose I could have worded what I wrote differently, but the point remains. Union controls the labor, labor is the union, so therefore labor controls themselves. They are the same thing and have the same objective, increase pay/QOL/benefits.

OK unions aren't a monopoly...we get it. It was an analogy . Now, when UAL pilots voted in their outstanding pay package in 2000, who did it effect? Management? Or the American population? My vote goes for #2.

 

Dude, United could have paid their pilots nothing and still lost money before they went into Ch11. It isn't the pilot contract that determines whether or not an airline will make money. It's the business plan.

 

Saab, thanks for the pep talk! , " His name was Regional Airline Pilot Guy, His name was Regional Airline Pilot Guy..."

 

Of course, they were losing money hand over fist after 9/11.

I'm simply talking about the time frame between after it was signed in 2000 and 9/11. You know, back when the airlines were actually making money !

Now, follow me here. UAL pilots get a 30% raise, where does the money come from? Back in that time, management passed on those raises to ticket fares. Wow, still off topic...what was the original question again???

 

Yeah I read that one. I think he was saying that he paid them $30k a year and all he could get was illegals. The other dairy farmer said he had to layoff half his staff because of farmer #1 undercutting him due to labor savings with illegals.