Its not being a hypocrite to come on here and tell you what we think. If anything is more of a "I told you so.";) Its just that some think Skywest pilots made a mistake and now its showing. Sure everyone makes decisions on whats best for them and some of those people also think that Skywest in making a decision on whats best for them, think it was the wrong decision (this happens at union cariers as well when a vote on a TA or LOA comes up, everyone has their opinions and it doesn't mean that anyone is a hypcrite). A decision that affects the industry whether they admit it of not. I don't think that is being hypocritical. Its just an opinion that people think Skywest made a mistake. I'm sure everything will work out but Skywest pilots will not get as much as they deserve and thus continue to "ride the coat tails," for lack of a better phrase.

You guys deserve so much better than ASA+4-12% or whatever your calculations are without the ALPA dues. And that is my point. Skywest is relegated to settle for parity rather than going for XJT+3%, for example and thus setting the bar higher.

You guys should get the respect you deserve and its too bad that some don't give it to you. But like I said, and I'm not making excuses either, there is a lot of animosity for Skywest because people think they made the wrong decision and it affects us all.

By the way, ALPA and its 1.95% that goes along with it, is so much MORE than just having bargaining power to help increase pay. So its not an apples to apples comparison anyways.

Oh, and I don't assume everyone voted against ALPA. I assume its about 65% that voted against ALPA.

ALPA does not run any airline. ALPA cannot guarantee that there will never be any furloughs. ALPA cannot guarantee that the airline will never go out of buisness. That is not the job of ALPA. That is the job of management. ALPA cannot do anything about inept management (Im not saying Skyway has inept management because I don't work there and thus dont know), bankruptcy, or another terrorist attack. But I can assure you ALPA will not be able to do anything for Skywest pilots if they fire, furlough, liquidate, or otherwise stop employing you. ALPA does help those people at other ALPA carriers get jobs at other ALPA carriers. For example, when IndyAir went out of business, ALPA convinced XJT to give preferential hiring to IndyAir guys. And now we have a ton of them here. We are in the process of doing the same for Astar and Im sure Skyway is not to far behind as well.

Its not about just pay rates increasing. Skywest is arguably thee most profitable regional. Then why are you settling for nothing less then thee highest pay rates?

Your reps were democratically elected and can be recalled or not voted in on the next election. They also have emails and phone numbers for you to call them and tell them how you feel about a certain issue. Did you ever vote? Did you ever email your rep? Did you ever call your rep? Did you ever attend you local council meeting? Did you ever voice your opinion at the local council meeting? Did you ever attend an MEC meeting? Did you ever voice your opinion at the MEC meeting? Did you ever volunteer? Did you ever run for a rep position? Did you subscribe to all the blastmails?

My MEC is NOT a bunch of old guys. And its probably not as much as you think at other MECs in the regional industry. In any case, like I said, everyone can tell them how they feel.

My MEC, for example, tends to look at what is best for our pilots as a whole and not just a certain demographic. It understands that pitting one demographic against another is not conducive to unity. And sure, no matter what they do, not everyone will be happy. Its just a matter of electing the right people and getting the wrong people out at the next election or recalling them.

You are right about ALPA not being "a magical, mythical, holy institution. It's just an organization, subject to all of the usual failings of human endevours everywhere." But it is a whole lot more than having bargaining power! But even if that was it, it sure would help you to have that power right about now.;)

By the way, Im 33 and favored changing the age 60 rule. It was inevitable. So even if you were against it, it was advantageous for ALPA to change its policy on age 60 in order to mitigate its effects when legislation was being written. I think ALPA was very successful in that regard.

I thought we were professionals? Every time I get on the forums now days all I hear is this “my regional is better than yours” bs. I’m embarrassed for you.

As far as the pay proposal goes I will vote no. I consider it a slap in the face with the 1% cost of living increase. More smoke and mirrors. Sapa did you push for a continuation of the bho or is that what you were given to present to us?

And for all you new hires remember you don’t get the bho until you finish your first year. Guess this is your reward for keeping the evil ALPA out.

My dad can beat up your dad!:D

SAPA didn't push to either retain BHO, or try to eliminate the current pay structure, which is in effect until Dec 2010, and was voted in by the pilots in Nov 2006.

The pay proposal does increase pay for an overwhelming majority of the SKW pilot population.

The beauty is that YOU GET TO DECIDE !!! Vote early, and vote often !

The $22 pay rate for first year jet FO's far surpasses the old pay rate of $19.50 plus 6% BHO.

Yes, it'll be the same rate for the first year, but more money overall.


FIRST YEAR FO RATES TO FLY "BIG" RJ's

....................CURRENT.........//......PROPOSED
..............2008...2009...2010..//.2008...2009....2010
1st year $20.67 $21.13 $21.60 //$22.00 $22.00 $22.00

I agree in that I think age 60 no longer made sense, particularly since it was enacted not by a safety agency conducting due process, but in a corrupt deal between AA's C. Smith and some congressional buddies...in order to get rid of highly paid senior CA's :mad:

I also think 65 is about the right cutoff age, although large medical advances might extend that someday.

However, a large majority of ALPA rank-and-file was opposed (obviously for career reasons), and I think the Prater should have gone with their desires. Unions don't exist to "do the right thing", they exist to look after the interests of their members. Personally I think ALPA should have pushed for a gradual phase-in which would have dampened the short-term impact....unfortunately that might not have allowed all the Uber-senior alpa leaders to stay past 60.

Oh, and all that crap about more stringent and frequent medicals for all pilots wasn't going to happen anyway...the whole point of this exercise is to avoid a pilot shortage....the ATA would not have allowed medical requirements which would ground 5-10% of the pilot force. :rolleyes:

It wasn't a large majority. It was about 57/43 split according to scientific polling of members. And about 80% said they would support changing the policy if it was inevitable to keep the age 60 rule as is.

It was in the interest of the members for ALPA to change its policy in order to mitigate the effects seeing that the FAA had already started the NPRM process and there were multiple bills in congress working their way to the presidents desk.

And it wasn't just opposing more stringent medicals. It was also about 'opposing any attempt by the FAA to obtain greater access to pilot medical records, supporting FAA Air Surgeon Tilton’s recommendation to require a 1st Class Medical certification every six months for pilots over age 60, prevent retroactive application of a change to the Age 60 rule, ensuring stronger liability protection for airlines and pilot unions in implementing a change to the rule, ensuring that, under a defined benefit retirement plan, a change to the Age 60 Rule will not reduce a participant’s or beneficiary’s accrued benefit nor reduce a benefit to which a participant or beneficiary would have been entitled without enactment of such a change to the rule, opposing for domestic operation the implementation of the ICAO standard that at least one pilot in the cockpit be under age 60, and support the ability of a pilot to retire prior to the mandatory age without penalty.'

ALPA has been sucessful in all but one of those and has been successful in introducing the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation Pilots Equitable Treatment Act and the Lost Retirement Act (S2505, S1270, HR4061, and HR2103) to take care of the last issue.

Just curious, why didn't SAPA push to eliminate the BHO?

Either you have a very warped sense of humor, or you don't know the history behind this quote.

As was said before, Bro FOs got the same pay raise as the CAs. 1.8% initially followed by 1% per year.