Colgan Pilot Development Program
01-25-2008, 10:28 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: In the doghouse
Posts: 136
The program is being offered on a one-on-one basis to selected candidates at or after the interview process. If your interested, apply and attend the interview. If they want you to complete the program, they will offer it to you. The other option is to be personally recommended by a CJC employee (aka pilot). Good luck.
01-25-2008, 10:43 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Math Teacher
Posts: 2,274
It seems that before long, Pilot Development Programs may become the norm in the regional sector. That's Mesa, Colgan, and GIA.
atp
atp
01-25-2008, 03:43 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,803
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(For the record, I have quit debating how low is too low. The Feds say 250 is enough, and they make the rules.)
01-25-2008, 04:08 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus Driver
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
I'm not sure why anyone would want to eliminate the pilot "shortage". If there is a shortage of a comodity, the price goes up (but it may take time).
Personally, I don't believe there is a pilot shortage. Yes, the pool is drying up, but it is not gone. A sampling of regional minimums shows an average of about 500/100. The FAA says a 250 hour Comm AMEL can be an FO. 250 is significantly lower than 500 hours: it seems some companies STILL have canidates to choose from. True, there are one or two companies whose minimums ARE Comm AMEL. Those companies will need to get creative to fill the pilot slots. Already we have seen companies willing to pay signing bonuses, even lower minimums with jet transition (or whatever they are called) courses, large newhire classes with high failure rates, and now Colgan is trying the Pilot Development Program.
The results of these creative solutions?
(1) Signing bonuses were eliminated almost immidately due to contract violation and general pilot outcry
(2) Jet transition folks paid a ton of money for some ground school and a few hours in a sim
(3) large newhire classes with high failure rates: costly and sends many folks home with a busted checkride
(4) Colgan's Pilot Development Program... results unknown for the company. But for a lowtime applicant there is no out of pocket cost (other than room and board) and no risk: if the applicant does poorly, there is no busted checkride on record.
Is Colgan's solution good for the industry.... I don't know. But at least it may keep a few over eager and ill prepared people from getting a black mark that would follow them the rest of thier carreer. Who knows, the Pilot Development Program may be the beginning of ab-initio progams here in the U.S.
(For the record, I have quit debating how low is too low. The Feds say 250 is enough, and they make the rules.)
Personally, I don't believe there is a pilot shortage. Yes, the pool is drying up, but it is not gone. A sampling of regional minimums shows an average of about 500/100. The FAA says a 250 hour Comm AMEL can be an FO. 250 is significantly lower than 500 hours: it seems some companies STILL have canidates to choose from. True, there are one or two companies whose minimums ARE Comm AMEL. Those companies will need to get creative to fill the pilot slots. Already we have seen companies willing to pay signing bonuses, even lower minimums with jet transition (or whatever they are called) courses, large newhire classes with high failure rates, and now Colgan is trying the Pilot Development Program.
The results of these creative solutions?
(1) Signing bonuses were eliminated almost immidately due to contract violation and general pilot outcry
(2) Jet transition folks paid a ton of money for some ground school and a few hours in a sim
(3) large newhire classes with high failure rates: costly and sends many folks home with a busted checkride
(4) Colgan's Pilot Development Program... results unknown for the company. But for a lowtime applicant there is no out of pocket cost (other than room and board) and no risk: if the applicant does poorly, there is no busted checkride on record.
Is Colgan's solution good for the industry.... I don't know. But at least it may keep a few over eager and ill prepared people from getting a black mark that would follow them the rest of thier carreer. Who knows, the Pilot Development Program may be the beginning of ab-initio progams here in the U.S.
(For the record, I have quit debating how low is too low. The Feds say 250 is enough, and they make the rules.)
Very good post.
Regardless of what one may think of Colgan or it's new stepfather, I think the program itself is a good deal for both sides. It's good for the pilot that is making the initial transition to 121 turbine operations and may need just a few extra hours of training/sim time to ease the transition. If this means that they can avoid a washout or a busted PC on their record, it's a good thing. It will help some pilots successfully get through training who have the aptitude to take on the job at relatively low total time. It may also help others realize that they may need to go build more time/experience without having to learn that through a busted PC and a permanent mark on their record.
It's also a good deal for the company. It gives them a better indication of how the candidate will fair in training. It should help reduce the number of avoidable training failures and thereby reduce the associated costs. Now without getting into the debate about total time, I will say this. Regardless of one's perspective concerning the total time issue, I do not want to see a pilot fail and have a permanent mark on his/her record. If there is something that he can do to better his chances of getting through training, in my opinion it's a good thing.
01-25-2008, 04:11 PM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
hello...............
(Just wanted to make sure I chimed in, it is a Colgan thread after all
)
(Just wanted to make sure I chimed in, it is a Colgan thread after all
)
01-25-2008, 06:13 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: E-170
Posts: 842
im curious as to how colgan is going to pay for this. it sounds like a really good idea
01-25-2008, 06:16 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
Originally Posted by atpwannabe
It seems that before long, Pilot Development Programs may become the norm in the regional sector. That's Mesa, Colgan, and GIA.
atp
atp
You forgot to add "again". Actually Colgan's program sounds like a great idea. Interview, get the offer for the program. If you fail, you are out room and board, but no failure on your record.
MESA, and GIA are different. And there used to be a few places that did what they are doing.
Come in, interview, get offered the job. Now pay for your own room,board, AND training. If you fail, you are out all that money, and you have a pink slip on your record. Also, Executive Jet (NetJets), ExpressJet, and ACA used to do it. Oh yeah, KIWI, ...
Anyway, like I said at least Colgan is footing the tab for the training, and it's not a "jeopardy" ride (sp?)
Last edited by Short Bus Drive; 01-26-2008 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Wrote ASA, changed to ACA
01-25-2008, 06:37 PM
#18
I'm here to help...
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive
You forgot to add "again". Actually Colgan's program sounds like a great idea. Interview, get the offer for the program. If you fail, you are out room and board, but no failure on your record.
MESA, and GIA are different. And there used to be a few places that did what they are doing.
Come in, interview, get offered the job. Now pay for your own room,board, AND training. If you fail, you are out all that money, and you have a pink slip on your record. Also, Executive Jet (NetJets), ExpressJet, and ASA used to do it. Oh yeah, KIWI, ...
Anyway, like I said at least Colgan is footing the tab for the training, and it's not a "jeopardy" ride (sp?)
MESA, and GIA are different. And there used to be a few places that did what they are doing.
Come in, interview, get offered the job. Now pay for your own room,board, AND training. If you fail, you are out all that money, and you have a pink slip on your record. Also, Executive Jet (NetJets), ExpressJet, and ASA used to do it. Oh yeah, KIWI, ...
Anyway, like I said at least Colgan is footing the tab for the training, and it's not a "jeopardy" ride (sp?)
I'm just a little peeon, but just thought I'd say that I appreciate this way of thinking. Being a low timer I look for information on this board - soak it in and make it relate to my goals, so its nice that some can agree that this might actually be a good opportunity.
Afterall, we arent paying for training like some of those that go through the jet transition courses... and you all like to harp on those guys. This seems to me like a free pass to see if you are ready or not, what guy in my position wouldnt be interested in seeing if he is ready as opposed to flying around in the pattern for another year?
Last edited by FlyingPoke; 01-25-2008 at 09:32 PM.
01-25-2008, 07:35 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: A320/321 FO
Posts: 1,114
A weeks worth of Hotel rent is a small price to pay compared to a washout on your record. I am all for the refresher course.
01-25-2008, 09:05 PM
#20
Day puke
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Out.
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by Killer51883
im curious as to how colgan is going to pay for this. it sounds like a really good idea
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
