Mesa negotiations... progress of lack thereof
02-01-2008, 09:30 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: XJT furloughed due to non-ALPA undercutting
Posts: 376
Mesa negotiations... progress of lack thereof
Mesa negotiations. Any progress being made?
You guys really need to take him to the bank, he has been cheating and exploiting pilots for years. Stand up against the man.
You need (without discussion)
-more than 8 days off a month (how about 14 min)
-block or better
-guaranteed line value pay
-work rules so you can credit over 100 hours a month
-second year pay more than $28 an hour
-override pay for 700/900 FOs.
-override pay for standup overnights
As LAMA, I know that Mesa FOs are some of the most exploited in the industry. I really really hope you guys are fixing it now. Otherwise, you should picket anyone that is going to interview with you guys. Stop the flow of people applying at one of the worst companies in the US.
Can anyone share positive news?
You guys really need to take him to the bank, he has been cheating and exploiting pilots for years. Stand up against the man.
You need (without discussion)
-more than 8 days off a month (how about 14 min)
-block or better
-guaranteed line value pay
-work rules so you can credit over 100 hours a month
-second year pay more than $28 an hour
-override pay for 700/900 FOs.
-override pay for standup overnights
As LAMA, I know that Mesa FOs are some of the most exploited in the industry. I really really hope you guys are fixing it now. Otherwise, you should picket anyone that is going to interview with you guys. Stop the flow of people applying at one of the worst companies in the US.
Can anyone share positive news?
02-01-2008, 10:18 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Posts: 393
Heck guys and gals, just slow the freakin' operation down so badly that Ornstein has no choice but to do something. Sometimes it seems like we've lost the playbook that, sadly, is sometimes needed. It's all business to them; make it more expensive to keep doing what they're doing than to change...
02-02-2008, 05:40 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,179
Originally Posted by Fokker28
Heck guys and gals, just slow the freakin' operation down so badly that Ornstein has no choice but to do something. Sometimes it seems like we've lost the playbook that, sadly, is sometimes needed. It's all business to them; make it more expensive to keep doing what they're doing than to change...
Make sure that you STOP blocking out on time. Make sure not to break a walking speed on that taxi...isnt that what it says in the AIM
....that should make you late on both ends...any little things you can think of. We are the soldiers in the trenches and can have a very large impact in how effecient the place is run.I too am LAMA and understand believe me...those 2 years felt more like a sentence to prison
Last edited by XtremeF150; 02-02-2008 at 05:42 AM. Reason: my poor spelling
02-02-2008, 10:29 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ CA
Posts: 299
I can tell ya that things may appear to have some movement with a "wham-bam" dealio they are pushing back and forth behind the scenes but here is what is really happening:
The company is entertaining this little lost cause of a quick-fix contract so that after it goes to the way-side and we enter into real section 6 bargaining and they stone wall us, they now have ammo to counter our claims of bad faith negotiating. See, they have just bought themselves a year or two of putting off ALPA negotiators. When we go to the NMB and claim they are acting in bad faith, the NMB mediator will look at the history and see that there was this attempt to have a contract right at the beginning of the process. They will ask what happened and the CO will say it was US not them that was unreasonable and BOOM, the pilot group gets shut down big time.
You think there will be a new contract soon at MAG? Perhaps, but it will be in the style of the one we have now OR it will be concessionary (remember, the CO lost 20 million last year). Heck, they would sign the current contract into effect yesterday if it was on the table. You can BET the CO has something to that effect in their arsenal.
Naw, there will not be any improvements in labor contracts at MAG any time soon. It's nice to discuss things like that and blow off some steam, but then reality sets in.
The company is entertaining this little lost cause of a quick-fix contract so that after it goes to the way-side and we enter into real section 6 bargaining and they stone wall us, they now have ammo to counter our claims of bad faith negotiating. See, they have just bought themselves a year or two of putting off ALPA negotiators. When we go to the NMB and claim they are acting in bad faith, the NMB mediator will look at the history and see that there was this attempt to have a contract right at the beginning of the process. They will ask what happened and the CO will say it was US not them that was unreasonable and BOOM, the pilot group gets shut down big time.
You think there will be a new contract soon at MAG? Perhaps, but it will be in the style of the one we have now OR it will be concessionary (remember, the CO lost 20 million last year). Heck, they would sign the current contract into effect yesterday if it was on the table. You can BET the CO has something to that effect in their arsenal.
Naw, there will not be any improvements in labor contracts at MAG any time soon. It's nice to discuss things like that and blow off some steam, but then reality sets in.
02-02-2008, 10:55 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by ERJ Driver
I can tell ya that things may appear to have some movement with a "wham-bam" dealio they are pushing back and forth behind the scenes but here is what is really happening:
The company is entertaining this little lost cause of a quick-fix contract so that after it goes to the way-side and we enter into real section 6 bargaining and they stone wall us, they now have ammo to counter our claims of bad faith negotiating. See, they have just bought themselves a year or two of putting off ALPA negotiators. When we go to the NMB and claim they are acting in bad faith, the NMB mediator will look at the history and see that there was this attempt to have a contract right at the beginning of the process. They will ask what happened and the CO will say it was US not them that was unreasonable and BOOM, the pilot group gets shut down big time.
You think there will be a new contract soon at MAG? Perhaps, but it will be in the style of the one we have now OR it will be concessionary (remember, the CO lost 20 million last year). Heck, they would sign the current contract into effect yesterday if it was on the table. You can BET the CO has something to that effect in their arsenal.
Naw, there will not be any improvements in labor contracts at MAG any time soon. It's nice to discuss things like that and blow off some steam, but then reality sets in.
The company is entertaining this little lost cause of a quick-fix contract so that after it goes to the way-side and we enter into real section 6 bargaining and they stone wall us, they now have ammo to counter our claims of bad faith negotiating. See, they have just bought themselves a year or two of putting off ALPA negotiators. When we go to the NMB and claim they are acting in bad faith, the NMB mediator will look at the history and see that there was this attempt to have a contract right at the beginning of the process. They will ask what happened and the CO will say it was US not them that was unreasonable and BOOM, the pilot group gets shut down big time.
You think there will be a new contract soon at MAG? Perhaps, but it will be in the style of the one we have now OR it will be concessionary (remember, the CO lost 20 million last year). Heck, they would sign the current contract into effect yesterday if it was on the table. You can BET the CO has something to that effect in their arsenal.
Naw, there will not be any improvements in labor contracts at MAG any time soon. It's nice to discuss things like that and blow off some steam, but then reality sets in.
I agree, reality at mesa is never a pretty picture. The company's current difficulties will simply provide JO with leverage to ensure that no gains are made. I'm actually pretty sure that he'll shoot for FURTHER concessions
02-02-2008, 02:14 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
If you listen to his phone conferences, JO repeatedly lies by saying Mesa has one of the highest paid pilots for CRJ9/700 and the rest are on par with industry rates, refuses to admit Mesa's losing pilots because they work for a ****ty company but rather because Majors are hiring. Also in the very last phone conference Jan15th he mentioned that Mesa's not concered as much about pilot attrition because of age 65 and that they're going to reduce some flying and focus on China and other ventures. Good luck with a better contract.
02-02-2008, 02:20 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,803
Originally Posted by AirWillie
If you listen to his phone conferences, JO repeatedly lies by saying Mesa has one of the highest paid pilots for CRJ9/700 and the rest are on par with industry rates, refuses to admit Mesa's losing pilots because they work for a ****ty company but rather because Majors are hiring. Also in the very last phone conference Jan15th he mentioned that Mesa's not concered as much about pilot attrition because of age 65 and that they're going to reduce some flying and focus on China and other ventures. Good luck with a better contract.
02-02-2008, 02:33 PM
#9
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Position: MD80
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB
And that the reason Mesa's Pilot attrition is so high is because they are upgrading at 3 years while every other regional is keeping us in the right-seat for nearly a decade...That was my favorite part! What a whack-job!
02-02-2008, 02:44 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 51
Plus with the company having to pay for the 80 milllion lawsuit. That doesn't help either. There is a way to change their tune, just quit and go work for a better airline. You are right, FO's are exploited the most, probably why they don't last more than 6 months hence leaves them short captains unless they hire from the street.
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