That's what I thought, thanks.

 

The Wing (state) Commander for Florida CAP is a major airline pilot

 

I'd like to see a source for CFI flying counting toward part 121 duty time... unless you're talking about time on duty and not flight time. CFI flying is not flying for hire in any case whatsoever. The FAA's position is that since you can instruct with a class 3 medical, it cannot be "flight for hire".

-FA

 

BAD GOUGE! You are going to get somebody violated...who told you that? The manager at your flight school?

What you are saying sounds somewhat logical, but that's not the way the FAA sees it at all. You might get slightly different answers from different feds, but getting paid to CFI most certainly counts if you ask airline POI's (they are the ones who count in this case).

The philosophy has nothing to do with your medical...the acid test apparently is: does the type of flying require a commercial certificate? You can't use your CFI cert without your commercial ticket...

The only grey area is truly non-compensated CFI work, like teaching a family member to fly. That may or may not be legal depending on who you talk to.

 

Actually, rickair, I got it from the AVR/AFS folks in OKC. They used to publish a list of FAQs for the various parts of the FARs; it reads like FAA interpretations of the rules in various applications - I'm sure you could google an old copy.

The bottom line is that flight instructors are exercising private pilot flight priviledges under their certificate and it is NOT considered flight for hire (that's why they only need a class 3 medical.) They're paid to teach.

Notwithstanding that, of course a company's FOM rules - one would be foolish to go counter to that. At my last airline our FOM used to have a restriction against doing flight instruction on the side - after some rational thought it was later (and quietly) removed. My current airline (I fly 737s) allows it as well.

- FA

 

The FAQ you are referring to (if I'm thinking of the same one) didn't address whether is was commercial flying or not. It just said a 3rd class medical was required. Here is an interpretation from the FAA chief councel's office (they are legally binding):

Your second question asks if this same flight crewmember may participate in the activities previously listed during a rest period if the work was done for another company, not ABC, and whether the flight crewmember could then accept an assignment with ABC for flight operations under Part 135, at the end of the rest period.

The answer is a qualified yes. ABC, as the certificate holder, has no way of forcing the flight crewmember to rest during a rest period. The prohibition against "other commercial flying" during a rest period applies to flying assigned by the certificate holder. The other commercial flying done by the flight crewmember does count against the daily 8 hour limitation if it is done before the Part 135 flying, and also counts against the pilot's quarterly and yearly flight time limitations. For example, 2 hours of "freelance" flight instruction by the pilot during his rest period limits him to only 6 hours of Part 135 flying time during that 24 consecutive hour period. Any other commercial flying done after the Part 135 flying does not count against the daily limitation, but still counts against quarterly and yearly totals.

An additional caution is that it is a violation of FAR 91.13 for a certificate holder or a flight crewmember to operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another. Lack of rest of the pilot is certainly a circumstance which could endanger others, and it is not necessary that the situation devolve into actual endangerment for there to be a violation of FAR 91.13. A certificate holder who uses a crewmember with knowledge of his or her lack of rest may be equally culpable along with the flight crewmember.

This interpretation has been prepared by Arthur E. Jacobson, Staff Attorney, Operations Law Branch, Regulations and Enforcement Division; Richard C. Beitel, Manager, and has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service at FAA Headquarters. We hope it has satisfactorily answered your inquiry.

 

Thanks for that, Schwartz. I guess it it still begs the question, then, of why flight instruction doesn't require at least a 2nd class medical if this government lawyer is going to consider it commercial flying. Maybe it's another case of one side of the house not talking to the other.

-FA

 

A flight instructor does NOT need to act as PIC in order to flight instruct.

However, the acting PIC DOES need a medical in order to be PIC.

Thus, a CFI without a medical does NOT need a medical in order to instruct a pilot that is qualified and able to act as PIC.

The easiest way to explain it is a CFI without a medical can instruct IFR stuff in the clouds, but not with the client under the hood, and no student pilot instruction.

Next, a flight instructor is subject to limitation on their duty day, just like an airline pilot or a mechanic. It's no more than 8 hours combined in a 24 hour period of flight instruction time, part 121 or 135 flying time, and/or "work time" as a mechanic.

 

Best option....send the highest end chief pilot an email saying something to the effect of:


Mr. ******,

I am a First Officer on the *****. I spoke with ****** about outside flying and he stated you are the person to make that decision. He explained the limiting factors are the commercial flight time limitations. I would like to instruct for a few hours here and there for ******. in ******. I assure you there will be no complications or issues as it relates to our company. I will ensure my flight time limitations will not exceeded under any circumstance and I acknowledge this airline is by far my first responsibility. With your permission, I would like to help out at ****** on a part time basis in my spare time.


Thank you for your consideration in the matter.

Respectfully,

Your Signature

He will respond.......

Approved, Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

Then your covered

 

Maybe in a perfect world.

Just get paid cash and don't tell anyone about it.