SkyWest looking to buy MAG, XJT, or both
05-04-2008, 03:18 PM
#132
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: On Top
Posts: 742
Originally Posted by HappyBudha
Skywest will buy the assets of XJT and not the people. I think it will be their terms or no job.
So again, for all you dreaming of buying XR's at a garage sale, you may want to educate yourselves a bit.
Two options:
The sale either happens
or
It does not
Sorry Tony no third option, not enough players (people or interim equipment) to pull a "United-ACA" deal (guess that makes you guys MESA
), CAL will make sure of that, it simply isn't in their interest to let it escalate to that.
05-04-2008, 04:01 PM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Flight Instructor
Posts: 623
Originally Posted by rickair7777
I'd be surprised...
MAG: If Jerry thought ASA was a PITA (which he did), why would he want to touch the mesa pile of doo-doo? If he wants the routes, he can probably just do nothing and they will fall in his lap anyway. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't want anything to do with Go! or KungFu!
XJT: Let's see...50-seaters, relatively expensive labor contract, 50-seaters, alpa, 50-seaters, shaky CAL contract, more 50-seaters. Nothing against XJet, but what do you do with it? Jerry declined to bid on CAL flying the last time he had the chance...he couldn't get the terms he wanted so why would he buy somebody else's terms?
I understand he has money burning a hole in his pocket, but other than that can anybody think of REALLY compelling reasons to buy either? Of course anything is worth buying if the price is low enough...
MAG: If Jerry thought ASA was a PITA (which he did), why would he want to touch the mesa pile of doo-doo? If he wants the routes, he can probably just do nothing and they will fall in his lap anyway. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't want anything to do with Go! or KungFu!
XJT: Let's see...50-seaters, relatively expensive labor contract, 50-seaters, alpa, 50-seaters, shaky CAL contract, more 50-seaters. Nothing against XJet, but what do you do with it? Jerry declined to bid on CAL flying the last time he had the chance...he couldn't get the terms he wanted so why would he buy somebody else's terms?
I understand he has money burning a hole in his pocket, but other than that can anybody think of REALLY compelling reasons to buy either? Of course anything is worth buying if the price is low enough...
05-05-2008, 01:52 PM
#139
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
The union choice (right) is ongoing. A vote is an action. We've executed our ongoing right on 3 occasions with action... via a vote.
We both agree that neither JA, the SkW board, nor most shareholders want a union. What you don't seem to fully acknowledge is that collectively, the pilots here don't want a union either. Our company and its employees are consistent on this issue.
Introducing a scenario that would most probably alter that would not be appreciated by any of the stake holders listed above.
We both agree that neither JA, the SkW board, nor most shareholders want a union. What you don't seem to fully acknowledge is that collectively, the pilots here don't want a union either. Our company and its employees are consistent on this issue.
Introducing a scenario that would most probably alter that would not be appreciated by any of the stake holders listed above.
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
We all agree that Don was a bad deal. The former chief pilot who fired Don is now just a lowly pilot with the rest of us. A judge didn't force SkW to reassign him. Management did, for hopefully obvious reasons.
With the very rare exception of that former CP, the pilots feel that we have a largely good group running the show. Sounds like XJT pilots feel the same way.
Don's situation was an exception, and not the rule. And in the end, whether Don was at SkW or XJT, the process was similar. A third party adjudicated the end result. I predict you'll want to then point out that ALPA would have paid for his legal bills, but also point out that he didn't spend two decades paying dues either. And all his legal bills are covered as part of the judgment (to my knowledge, anyway).
With the very rare exception of that former CP, the pilots feel that we have a largely good group running the show. Sounds like XJT pilots feel the same way.
Don's situation was an exception, and not the rule. And in the end, whether Don was at SkW or XJT, the process was similar. A third party adjudicated the end result. I predict you'll want to then point out that ALPA would have paid for his legal bills, but also point out that he didn't spend two decades paying dues either. And all his legal bills are covered as part of the judgment (to my knowledge, anyway).
We really don't have these kinds of situations happen here at XJT because our CPs know that it would be overturned very quickly. I was just giving you a hard time about DD because you mentioned "horror stories" but we tend to have the opposite horror stories of guys that should have been disciplined more harshly but didn't.
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Tired old rhetoric. You're entitled to you opinion, and so are we.
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Lockheed treats their employees better than the FAA. My opinion. But I'm not a proponent of privatized government and user fees.
The biggest issue in the change over from government to private is the grotesque way employees are treated... yes, union employees. Guys with 24 years and 364 days of federal service... sorry Charlie, no retirement pension for you !
It should be law to offer a pro rata pension. Don't worry, if we get McSame in the White House, you will see LockMart, Boeing, or whoever sucking off the government teet for ATC services.
To bring this back to XJT guys coming to SkW, the union issue will be the single biggest issue for we SkW pilots. Not list integration... that would be easy. So, again, I predict that XJT (if bought) would be held separate, like ASA, or merged with ASA. You and I can disagree on the reasons why that might transpire.
The biggest issue in the change over from government to private is the grotesque way employees are treated... yes, union employees. Guys with 24 years and 364 days of federal service... sorry Charlie, no retirement pension for you !
It should be law to offer a pro rata pension. Don't worry, if we get McSame in the White House, you will see LockMart, Boeing, or whoever sucking off the government teet for ATC services.
To bring this back to XJT guys coming to SkW, the union issue will be the single biggest issue for we SkW pilots. Not list integration... that would be easy. So, again, I predict that XJT (if bought) would be held separate, like ASA, or merged with ASA. You and I can disagree on the reasons why that might transpire.
Also, don't forget that it was algore who started this whole privatization thing rolling when he was VP. They are all McSame!
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
This potentially brings value to SkW shareholders, with the associated risks. For line pilots at SkW, there's not much in it. Our pay isn't going up or down, and according to you, the only thing we have to look forward to is a union that 65% of us don't want.
While I don't foresee your outcome, I do see greater benefits for XJT pilots than SkW pilots.
While I don't foresee your outcome, I do see greater benefits for XJT pilots than SkW pilots.
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Actually, I'm kinda interested what you think would be bad for you too. Certainly the obvious one being a shut down of XJT at-risk flying resulting in furloughs (at least that's what folks are emailing to me). I guess if we're merged and then that happens, we'll just take the junior SkW guys and put them on the street. Problem solved.
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
There is no reason for XJT pilots to willingly give up scope as it is currently written in their CBA just to make this deal happen. There is no tangible upside to doing so, only an abstract belief doing so will allow SKW "save" the company. Do I think the CBA language causing SKW to balk could be bought? Yes, I do. What will it cost to do so? I personally think a legally binding agreement between XJT ALPA and SKW, Inc. signed by Jerry Atkin, guaranteeing no loss of the current number XJT pilot jobs or airframes flying CAL colors...but I guess we'll see.
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
The answer is yes. And, yes, I also thought they were going to let it go.
Naturally, there's more to the story than meets the eye...
Naturally, there's more to the story than meets the eye...
Originally Posted by HappyBudha
Skywest will buy the assets of XJT and not the people. I think it will be their terms or no job.
Originally Posted by TonyWilliams
Sawlly Chawlie, you get no buyout.
05-05-2008, 05:39 PM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
Originally Posted by Nevets
You contradict yourself. You said that, "Lockheed treats their employees better than the FAA." But then you said, " The biggest issue in the change over from government to private is the grotesque way employees are treated." I'm sure you used this example because LM did this to FSS employees. I wouldn't say that LM treats their employees better than the FAA when the first thing they do is say, "sorry Charlie, no retirement pension for you!" Especially when Charlie had 24 years and 364 days of federal service.
I wasn't very clear. Yes, virtually any company (except maybe Mesa) treats their employees better than FAA treats its ATC workforce.
The grotesque treatment I'm referring to is from the FAA. Lockheed didn't do this to FSS folks. The FAA did. LockMart is merely the opportunists. The FAA, with direction from Bush, Inc, started the FSS privatization process in 2003 and completed it Oct 2005.
It is the agency that weasled its way out of paying retirements to folks who served 99.9% of their obligation, and who got 0% of their retirement.
Not every FSS person got screwed. The agency did keep (I think) 300 of the 2200 former FSS folks and put them in ATC jobs. In many instances, FSS folks were put in management or supervisor jobs over the current ATC workforce. And those who were eligible to retire, did in fact retire and continue working for LockMart... double dipping.
Last edited by TonyWilliams; 05-05-2008 at 05:45 PM.
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