Originally Posted by BlueMoon (Post 1073368)

You can log it however you want, that is your right, but future employers will most likely not count that time towards their minimums.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1073799)

This is true. But you have to separate it out when filling out airline apps, otherwise they will consider it fraud.

Originally Posted by WEACLRS (Post 365042)

No. You may not log pilot-in-command time until you complete IOE, including your FED ride, and then sign for the aircraft on your first line flight.

Part 61.51(e)(1) does not apply to ATP's. To quote the regulation...

"61.51 Pilot logbooks...(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only...". The is no ATP listed in 61.51(e)(1). Once you obtain an ATP, part 61.51(e)(1) no longer applies to you. You may no longer log "sole manipulator" PIC time under this regulation for any aircraft ever again. The purpose of this regulation was to allow you to log required PIC flight time toward certificates and ratings, to build experience under the watchful eye of a more seasoned pilot. Once you reach an ATP, that purpose has been achieved.

Under 61.51(e)(2) an ATP may log PIC time while acting as PIC of an operation requiring an ATP certificate. However, this "PIC" is defined in Part 1.1 under Pilot in command. He's the guy who's ultimately responsible.

If you have a check airman in the right seat and he signs the paper work, he's the PIC. And if you screw the approach up enough he'll be happy to inform you of that fact by stating rather loudly, "My Aircraft!" :)

Originally Posted by peastain (Post 1073815)

PIC time could legally be logged while on IOE whenever you are manipulating the controls and that would be legal. As far as logging time as "PIC" for command of the aircraft you are not in command of the aircraft as long as there is a check airman in the right seat. Also, even if it were legal to start logging PIC from the start of IOE, most airlines would want to see logged PIC time only when you were PIC and not under any sort of check airman supervision. Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 1073878)

During IOE, that is true. But if it's just a yearly line check (you were already qualified as captain) then you would be signing for the flight, not the check airman, and as such logging pic.

Originally Posted by CrakPipeOvrheat (Post 1073870)

(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—

I believe you can log PIC. This is just a section of part 61 for aeronautical experience required for an ATP. This basically describes the exact same situation that IOE is. If you are performing the duties of PIC why not log PIC? It counts toward your certificates it should count in your log book. If you are performing the duties of PIC and the definition of a PIC has final authority then you would have final authority until the supervising pilot feels then need to intervene. "performing the duties of PIC", like I said, final authority is a PIC duty and you are performing it under supervision.

I should add that if you are not performing all the duties of PIC during supervision then I wouldn't log it as PIC...such as signing the paperwork.

Originally Posted by dontsurf (Post 364485)

i guess i wasted all my time typing that stuff. oh well. anyway, i'll say it again: there is a difference between logging pic time (his original question, if you'll scroll up) and ACTING as pic. that is to say, being THE pic, the one and only pilot in command, which the faa or the ntsb, in your oh so clever example, would want to talk to, is not always and necessarily the same as someone who is, in fact, logging pic time. the faa is very clear on this, and anyone can look that up with them.

i was just trying to give a correct, and complete, answer to his original question. if he (or you) don't believe me, check with the faa. again, they are very clear on this, because (gasp) this guy was not the first person in history to ask such a question.

Originally Posted by Lowlevel (Post 1073992)

The FAA reg actually states that you can log PIC time, even as a FO, if you are controlling the aircraft, and type rated in it. I know some of the Compass FOs that do that, and one actually got a letter from the FAA stating the fact that it is legal PIC time.

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 1073910)

If the check airman is in the jumpseat, you are probably still the PIC.

If the check airman is in the right seat, you are probably not the PIC.

But the release will tell you for sure in either case. Go by that.