MESA STOCK slumps to a new low today
04-26-2008, 07:10 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by ImEbee
Does BK actually give an airline the right to throw out a CBA? Sounds a little far fetched.
I miss Carl, maybe with the airlines in trouble, we will see our Uncle again. I hope not !
FF
04-28-2008, 04:26 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: E170 FO
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by stinsonjr
I see your point...just was thinking it would be a way to "stick it to the man"
You make an excellent case as to why this is risky. One question though...if Mesa can break the CBA, then why shouldn't the training contracts also be tossed? Obviously, if the CBA is tossed and QOL gets even worse for MAG pilots (not sure how, but lets say it can) then the terms of the original job offer that included the training contract have changed...shouldn't that void the training contract?
You make an excellent case as to why this is risky. One question though...if Mesa can break the CBA, then why shouldn't the training contracts also be tossed? Obviously, if the CBA is tossed and QOL gets even worse for MAG pilots (not sure how, but lets say it can) then the terms of the original job offer that included the training contract have changed...shouldn't that void the training contract?
04-28-2008, 11:48 AM
#43
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by stinsonjr
I see your point...just was thinking it would be a way to "stick it to the man"
You make an excellent case as to why this is risky. One question though...if Mesa can break the CBA, then why shouldn't the training contracts also be tossed? Obviously, if the CBA is tossed and QOL gets even worse for MAG pilots (not sure how, but lets say it can) then the terms of the original job offer that included the training contract have changed...shouldn't that void the training contract?
You make an excellent case as to why this is risky. One question though...if Mesa can break the CBA, then why shouldn't the training contracts also be tossed? Obviously, if the CBA is tossed and QOL gets even worse for MAG pilots (not sure how, but lets say it can) then the terms of the original job offer that included the training contract have changed...shouldn't that void the training contract?
The way BK works is that the company, with court approval, can break existing contracts unilaterally if doing so will help the company to survive and re-organize. Some contracts may be kept intact, if the company wants to do that.
The training contract is an obligation or debt in the company's favor, and there would be no reason beneficial to the company to throw it out.
Kind of like if the bank holding your home mortgage...the bank can get rid of debts that it owes (ie building lease, utility bills, retirement funds, etc), but you STILL owe your mortgage. If the bank liquidates, then creditors will own whatever is left over, including your mortgage paper...you will just end up making payments to a new party.
The training contract doesn't guarantee ANY conditions of employment, it just says you have to work for them. Since it is not formally tied to the CBA, it would be hard to make a case that the training contract is invalid without the CBA. Seperate issues. Fair? No. Legal? Probably.
04-28-2008, 12:45 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ CA
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by rickair7777
The training contract would absolutely NOT be void in BK.
The training contract doesn't guarantee ANY conditions of employment, it just says you have to work for them. Since it is not formally tied to the CBA, it would be hard to make a case that the training contract is invalid without the CBA. Seperate issues. Fair? No. Legal? Probably.
The training contract doesn't guarantee ANY conditions of employment, it just says you have to work for them. Since it is not formally tied to the CBA, it would be hard to make a case that the training contract is invalid without the CBA. Seperate issues. Fair? No. Legal? Probably.
04-28-2008, 03:03 PM
#47
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by ERJ Driver
Actually, the training contract is stipulated in the MAG contract, page 32 paragraph H. 1.
). It does not tie it in any way to the companys obligations under the CBA.Does the training contract reference the CBA? I'm 99.9% certain it does not. The training contract probably stands verbatim as it is written...
Remember, it's not about what is fair, it's about what is explicity stated in the contract.
04-29-2008, 03:29 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ CA
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by jedinein
Man, if they voided the contract, they'd have to start paying minimum wage. That'd triple their costs!
But seriously, if they do the BK thing, I think we lose our furlough protection. Or so someone said... it has to do with the training events. About 300 pilots... well at least about 150 will have to be retrained over to the CRJ and the company will not likely pay for that. Nor will they pay for someone to sit at home waiting for the training event.
Oh well. Too bad, so sad. Thanks for playing. Guess that's the way it is in this country, keep on cutting the throat of the little guy.
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