What about the guys/gals who held off and didn't get a new house and two new cars? Why should they bear the burden of your buddy's poor decisions?

It would be different if he just found out his kid had some horrible disease, but I hate paying for others' mistakes.

 

And your point is??????????

 

I do not see how extending your life and reaching the American Dream is a poor decision maybe to you it is. I am still trying to understand the point about bearing the burden. What did this decision to buy a house or car have to do with us getting downgraded or getting the F_word in a few months.

The only reason I mentioned the reference to new home owner and car owner is some people will have to do what they have to do to survive. To Hell with not picking up open time. Ok, let me change the story. What about that pilot that has to pay $850 dollars in student loans, $350 for rent, $100 to eat each month and upgraded hoping to make ends meet, well guess what he's back to 74 hours a month ($25 per hour) and a crappy contract that does not pays him nothing.

Guys do what you have to do.

And your point again is?????????????????????????????????

 

New homes, new cars and other material things aren't "doing what they have to do to survive". Sounds like he went on an upgrade spending binge. If they furlough, what do the pilots that get furloughed do to survive? New cars and homes are a little trivial when you don't have a job and can't put any food on the table.

If four pilots pick up four day pairings worth 18 hours each you just cost that furloughed pilot a chance to have a job. When you pick up open time with pilots on the street you're screwing your brothers in arms and helping the company save on the bottom line.

The point is, your other coworkers could end up on the street because your airline is doing what they've done numerous times during their "25 years of aviation excellence". They could have prevented ever downgrade/furlough/exodous they've had in the past 10 years if they had some people that knew what they were doing sitting in those offices in Bridgeton.

 

You know what I have learnt in my short time in aviation. Everyone pretends like they care about the other guys, but believe me when sheit hits the fan no one care about the other. If my job becomes threaten in any way do you think I will care about helping you save your job or would you take a pay cut so I could have a job at your airline.

Look at the debates and posts we have been reading about Skywest vs Expressjet, pilots attacking pilot because one company is threating the future of the other.

I agree it sucks for most people and how they spent, I know it will suck of 80 more pilots regardless of the number of open time that is left untouched. Have you seen the average block at TSA, even the reserve guys at your airline would not take that line. I am like Ryan Reeve I do all I can to fly the bear minimum, if you look at the company trip trade/drop site my whole month schedule is available if anyone needs to fly more to save their job.

My point basically: We can encourage pilots not to pick up open time. But when it has to do with putting food on the table for their family, paying bills, having medical insurance screw everyone else they will do what they have to do. The guys in Bridgeton do not care and have never cared, so whether you pick up open time or not we are all going to be screwed from the behind.

 

I understand your thought process pilotpip. I got the upgrade and just got downgraded, but I did not spend money like I had it. Unfortunately, due to helping family/college bills etc, i had to average about 95 hours/month credit to live decently on FO pay. Now i go back to FO, never having gotten a Captains paycheck but having 2 months of minimum FO pay through training, lines are built to no more than 85 hours now, and it's looked badly upon if I pick up open time to survive. I feel for those that will get furloughed and those that are already furloughed, but unfortunately the bill collectors don't care why my payment is not being made. And if I have to pick up open time to make my payments...then so be it. The company should have been more proactive and not hired too many pilots. I don't like helping the company, if i had the option of doing the bare minimum, then I would. But not all of us can afford to do that, even if we didnt go buy a new house and car.

 

I agree it sucks for most people and how they spent, I know it will suck of 80 more pilots regardless of the number of open time that is left untouched. Have you seen the average block at TSA, even the reserve guys at your airline would not take that line. I am like Ryan Reeve I do all I can to fly the bear minimum, if you look at the company trip trade/drop site my whole month schedule is available if anyone needs to fly more to save their job.

My point basically: We can encourage pilots not to pick up open time. But when it has to do with putting food on the table for their family, paying bills, having medical insurance screw everyone else they will do what they have to do. The guys in Bridgeton do not care and have never cared, so whether you pick up open time or not we are all going to be screwed from the behind.[/QUOTE]

THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS A QUOTE AND NOT MY WORDS

That is the exact same justification that people make for joining alter egos and crossing picket lines. I am not trying to say that not picking up open time will cure all the evils of this industry. If you have to put food on the table and it is such a dire situation, then you friend probably needs to consider a different occupation, regardless of how much he believes he loves flying. If there is so much open time available then it is a staffing issue and there doesnt need to be downgrades and furloughs. By picking up open time from a company that is actively participating in these practices all you are doing is encouraging it and showing them that they can operate on these reduced levels. Bottom line is companies that do this put pilots on the streets.

 

I agree with your statement and I am not going to defend this point any further. First point, as much as I would do anything to fly a 70 seat airplane I would never join an alter ego airline. If you know me I would be the first on a picket line would never cross one.

Secondly, I never said food on the table was a dire situation. And also I am not encouraging picking up open time, I am not supporting the company to rape us on a daily basis. All am saying many pilots will never listen to the advice no matter how much we stress it, and believe me it happens everyday.

I agree with your point and I respect your comments.

This is first hand experience of what I am trying to explain to everyone. I guess I should not be drinking Jack and Coke in the morning does not help. But guys the point I was trying to make is that many pilots at Transstates have been downgraded and possible furloughed, they will have financial difficulty and you do not have to have a home and car, but student loans that cost more than a new car or home and other responsibily will break you.

2007 yearly earning from 3 Regional FOs
Person A - $18,784
Person B - $19,125
Person C - $22,568 includes JR for time/half.

Guys fly the contract and keep your head up......

 

If "extending your life and reaching the American Dream" means putting oneself in such a precarious situation that one setback causes that new house of cards to fall, I guess we don't dream the same thing.

 

THE ABOVE STATEMENT IS A QUOTE AND NOT MY WORDS

That is the exact same justification that people make for joining alter egos and crossing picket lines. I am not trying to say that not picking up open time will cure all the evils of this industry. If you have to put food on the table and it is such a dire situation, then you friend probably needs to consider a different occupation, regardless of how much he believes he loves flying. If there is so much open time available then it is a staffing issue and there doesnt need to be downgrades and furloughs. By picking up open time from a company that is actively participating in these practices all you are doing is encouraging it and showing them that they can operate on these reduced levels. Bottom line is companies that do this put pilots on the streets.[/QUOTE]


Amen Brother! And those folks whose kids need to eat (unlike mine I guess) are sure to enjoy the spoils of the sacrifice others have made.

"Who will help me eat the bread?" -The Little Red Hen