Thanks, but i wasn't one of the ones terminated on Friday. I left two yrs ago. I saw the writing on the wall I guess. Hey man, sky high isn't being negative, he is just speaking the truth. Some of these kids on here need to know what it's really like. Especially the career changer forum posts on jetcareers.com. Those guys are scaring me! Like I said before, I will never discourage anyone from entering the pilot profession, because I did.

 

That's exactly what SkyHigh is doing, giving summary discouragements for anyone considering the career.

Hey I agree, all the facts need to be on the table. However, if you review SkyHigh's posts in other threads, you'll see how bitter and negative he is.

 

How can we define a winner in this profession anymore? Does it mean reaching the right seat of a big jet? Does making it mean wearing the uniform of a major airline?

To me winning means earning enough to justify the cost of training, education, risk and sacrifices it took to get there while reaching a lifestyle that is better than if I hadn't made the effort in the first place.

I became a pilot because I loved to fly but also because I believed that my efforts would result in a better life for me and my family. I worked hard and long to get there. However, since I began I have seen the top of the mountain crumble till there really is little left. Wages at the regionals have been shrinking while obstacles to reaching the goal have increased. It has gotten to the point where my opinion is that it is not worth the financial or lifestyle hit to do it anymore when compared to other professions.

If that makes me negative then so be it. I just think that it means that I will not permit myself to drive off a cliff especially when I can see it coming. Most others also share a sense of self preservation. Therefore if I can bring to light facts and information that can paint a more accurate picture then perhaps I could save a few 100K and the wasted years.

If someone is taking measure of this profession and is using as a yardstick job security, financial rewards, quality of life, control over your own life, future prospects and of building professional value then this industry it is a losing proposition. There are few aviation jobs worth having anymore. The odds of making it to one of the better companies are too long for most rational people. At this point even the better companies are in doubt.

I do not think that I am negative, however I will concede that some bitterness occasionally sneaks in and adds color to what I write. The future of aviation is not bright. The oil crisis is just the latest event in the slow motion disaster that has been unfolding in the airlines since deregulation. A year from now 30% of the pilots in this country could be unemployed.

SkyHigh

 

SkyHigh I think the problem many have with you on here is not that you tend to be negative and bitter but you have 3500 posts of the same drivel and that tends to get old. You claim that you are providing some kind of service to the young, naive kids looking to get into the industry by pointing out how tough its, how unrewarding it is, blah blah blah. I think after all your past posts and responses they can glean that idea without you having to continually place post after post of negativity. I mean most of your posts are almost carbon copies of each other with some words switched around or replaced. Its like a broken record. A few posts about the perils of getting into this industry are ok but you have gone way overboard and frankly while I may feel Zapata's posts are a little on the angry side I have to say I agree with what he says. Should you have a say on here? Yes.....and you have......3500 times.....very negatively.

 

SkyHigh,

You and I both know that at the end of the day, it's about money. Pride and excitement of the career aside, in order for you to make it (read: survive), you need money. It's the first order of business. Some have parents that gave them every penny they needed, therefore making $19K is a charm. Those of us who paid every penny for our pursuit understand just how insane $19K is to live on. And those who think it's an awesome idea to max out their credit cards to make it work, well, I'm interested to see how their lives turn out in 5-10 years. If someone can make the math work for them at the initial starting salary of a regional airline FO, then all the power to them. Essentially, there are two sides to this coin. Those who are airline pilots, and those who tried. Both sides of the coin are trying to convince those who are on the edge of the coin their side of the story. It is everyone's hope that those who are considering and subsequently get into this career succeed. I think it's great that airline pilots are cheerleading how wonderful the job is and how much fun it is. But these same people need to let people like you and me express our experiences as well because they are just as real and just as legitimate.

I know from my experience that I got screwed by a flight school down in FL. 10-12 months became 18 and the added time translated to unexpected expenses that effectively placed me in a very difficult financial situation to make the career viable at an exciting $19K that first year with the possibility of making top pay of $35K at year five. Not to mention living in the red for the first 48 months. I got ripped off and got my balls kicked in by these dishonorable, gutless, immorale clowns. Nevertheless, I must be the biggest loser for being taken by these expert con artists. But I digress.

I don't think you're being negative like some of these others say. I applaud you for continuing to educate those who are seeking information. You have a story to tell, just like I have a story to tell, just like those who are on the other side of the coin, have a story to tell. What I have learned out of all this mess is that there is one universal language that everyone better get used to. And that is MATH. If you can make the numbers work from 0 hour to jet hours and manage to side step the land mines, then congratulations. Have a great time flying the friendly skies. For those of us who stepped on a mine or see the mine field before trying to cross it, well, we have just as much right to tell our side of the story.

What these folks on here also fail to understand is that while you and I sing the same song over time, the new people don't exactly dig into the past for information. The perception is, if it's old, it's old news. I don't go to the library and dig through microfilm for news in the 60's for the current events. It makes zero sense. I had someone asking "What is the CAPT program?" last week. I having been away from the forums for some time. I'm sure that person didn't dig into the past to find out how badly I got screwed by the CAPT program and how they should stay away from the CAPT program like a cheap ***** with AIDS. So I'd say, keep singing your tune and educate these newbies. The regulars on this forum really should pass up your posts (and mine) and seek new topics to scour, if it's even possible.

 

sorry, wrong tread

 

All I can say is: GO FOR IT.
Despite all the BS, furloughs, BK's, 9/11, management, and time away from family it still beats any 8 to 5 job!
At one point I tried another job, every day at home, good pay but I was miserable, lasted LONG 8 months.
Some days I'm in the cockpit and get amazed that I get paid to do what I love

I always wonder why so much negativism in APC, apparently we forget how fortunate we are to be able to do what we love and get paid for it. And yes I know pay could be better.

How many times do you see any other professional have the same passion for their jobs as we do?

 

Total BS. This guy must be a sales professional at a large flight school. Like most pilots I am an optimist, but more importantly I'm a realist.

THE CAREER PATH OF A PROFESSIONAL AVIATOR IS AN OBSTACLE COURSE BUILT IN A MINEFIELD.


If you're making the decision to go down that road you need do some soul-searching...

Do you understand the costs of the profession (Up front costs, lost opportunity costs, and life style impact)?

Are you willing to pay those costs? Is your family? Remember, if you get a few years into it and decide you don't like it there is already a LOT of effort and money under the bridge. I fly with one guy who hates the profession, but his family supported and financed him through the entry-level and he feels that they will be disapointed if he quites...I'm sure he will eventually, just hasn't worked up the courage yet. What a dilema... I also know a variety of RJ CA's who are looking for a way out, most are building a business of some sort.

Do you really like airplanes and other gadgets for their own sake? If you have no interest at all in how an airplane works, you will never be as safe a pilot as someone who does. If your attraction to aviation is about the IMAGE and not the substance, then your self-fullfillment will expire after about one year on line.

Are you willing to accept the consequences of total failure? Some things are beyond your control...loss of medical, Ch.7 bankruptcy, bad day in the sim, etc. This is NOT like other professions...if you get knocked off the hill, you have to start climbing from the bottom all over again.


Absolutely make your own decisions, don't let anyone else tell you the answer, but please make informed decisions. For your own sake, and ours as well. The absolute last thing we need is what I mentioned above: RJ CA's leaving the industry in droves at the 5-10 year mark. That would be management's wet dream...they gain next-to-nothing from a CA with more than a couple years experience, but he sure costs more! The industry would greatly prefer if professional piloting was reduced to a youthful lark...something rich kids do for a few years before they are ready to buckle down and attend law school. Kind of like the peace corps, or backpacking across europe.

 

Frankly, nobody said life was going to be easy, happy or fair. Everyone gets a hand dealt to them in this life and how we each deal with it in many ways defines us as a person. Certainly there are those in EVERY profession and this one is no different who by the chance of luck, and or skill and or position in life have had things go their way. On the flip side some guys cant seem to get a flipping break, ( i know a couple guys who have been furloughed 4 or 5 times ). My point is that we all have a story to tell of some sort. Many of us could be bitter ( like Sky and some others ) but what does that all accomplish? Sky says he does it to "educate" the newbies.... and thats probably true to some extent, but I also believe he does in because he DOES love flying and is bitter at the hand life dealt him in regards to his passion. He is probably not alone in his bitterness... personally I could be bitter, my timing in the business has pretty much sucked. Yes I was military trained and yes I have the requisite PIC time ( albeit TP turbine time ), international experience... yada yada yada.... but my first time around... guess what the airline business was in turmoil ( 92-94 ) and a regional/commuter job was all I could garner with 2000 hours of ME turbine time .... I spent three years languishing at the bottom of the seniority list at Flagship/Nashville Eagle.... finally in disgust over our APA negotiated contract I quit. Now after a 10+ year hiatus I am back in the business about 15% from the bottom of RAH's list and look at the industry NOW... TURMOIL.... what will happen... I dont know. I could be bitter about my timing or my choices or any number of things. But what would that accomplish but to make me bitter and ****ed off all the time. Most of us see the business for what it is and all you can do is do your job, fly your line... and see what happens. I have said it before and it was JUST as true 16 years ago when I got in this business as it is today... IF YOU DONT LOVE FLYING ....AND I MEAN REALLY.... LOVE FLYING THIS IS NOT THE BUSINESS FOR YOU. Aviation was a relationship killer in 1986 just as much as today.... yea maybe it paid more then, but that was just more to give to the EX. LOLOL

Bottom line is that everyone makes choices in life... some work out, many dont. Deal with them and move on. For some choices are forced upon us, but the premise remains, DEAL with it. I respect much of what SKY says, but like WHIZ get tire of seeing it over and over and over again. SKy's aviation career has hurt him, he is not the first nor the last. Not everyone subscribes to his train of thought... GREAT.... EVERY profession has those that thru no fault of their own, or due to choices that seemed good turned out bad, just didnt get the brass ring. In the end personally I have my family and my faith, and having suffered great personally tragedy in the past few years believe that all things happen to each of us for a reason...its for us to find out why.

 

Skyhigh in another thread:

"Last week 200 Billion was pumped into the credit pipeline. Six months from now banks could start to generate loans again and things could turn around. This is a great window of opportunity to jump into the market."

Skyhigh's aparently not bitter about everything, he just hates the profession because he feels cheated by it.

Not everyone will end up with a great career but some will. And "great" is in the eye of the beholder. If you want some sort of guarantee, get into real estate like Sky suggests. No guarantees in aviation.

And, yeah, I'd do it again if I had it to do over....