I know it won't happen, but I'm sure things will turn for the better. This whole mess of a situation with airlines, pay, QOL, etc. is a direct effect of deregulation.

Oh, and as for unions...that's a joke...for a person looking in from the outside, it seems that unions have done nothing but accept concessions, concessions, concessions, concessions, and oh, I forgot, more concessions to whatever the airlines want. After all, it's the airlines writing and signing paychecks, not unions. The recent news of NWA working out a tentative agreement probably has union concessions written all over it. And I suspect the Delta situation is going to be the same. Concede, concede, concede...when unions stop conceding, and for airlines to raise air fare for a change, then everyone will be in a lot better of a situation. But that's just my observation.

BTW, here is my supplemental income info:

If you have any talent for music, buy some DJ gear and CDs. For a 4-hour show, I was charging $100 - $150 to the nightclubs, or $500 for a 6-hour wedding or private party. Or, if you want a quick pick-up job, I've walked into pizza places close to a dozen times in between various jobs... always walked out with a job, averaged $12 - $16 per hour (mostly tips, claim them if you want, or tax-free income), and they schedule week-to-week. Then there is always eBay...

The problem with unions at the regional level isn't concessions... it is that new FOs can't vote. That is my explanation for why we get paid .40 cents more to fly a bigger airplane while a first year captain gets 10 dollars more. That is a 2% difference for us and a 20% difference for them. One great term that I've heard to describe this phenomenon is that the union eats its young. Another is "I've got mine, who cares about yours."

You don't want pilots with less than one year's service to vote...their general attitude is that they will do ANYTHING to keep the job they just earned. This is understandable (we've all been there), but in many cases a contract change or strike resulting in a short-term downsizing may actually produce longer term benefits for all the pilots, even though the brand-new ones don't necessarily see that from their perspective.

Many regionals have only one payscale for jet FOs. I agree this is BS...it should be incremented for larger aircraft at the same percentage as the CA's.

I'm a military guy, and had a military buddy who loaded bags for one of the majors in the evenings. When he got out and had enough hours to be competitive, he got an interview and got hired since he already worked for the company.

Then please don't let this be you, because somewhere along the line every captain was an F.O. and he felt just as screwed as the rest of us. When he/she became Captain they felt like it was his turn to screw someone. Wrong attitude to have.

This is correct. Your first year you may need to supplement, or at least have some money saved up. I don't really think it requires 5 roomates, if you and just one other FO get together and split a two bedroom apt., you should be fine. Second year I see no reason you cannot get out on your own. Most second year pay is $30K-$35K or so. This is enough to rent a pretty nice apt. and be on your own, unless you like a roomate to split the rent, etc. No reason to need to supplement on captain pay at all.

Crazy as it may sound, go by the formula Oprah gives for her "Debt Diet", lol. It really does work.

35% of monthly salary for housing (rent, mortgage)
25% of monthly salary for transportion (gas, train, etc.)
15% of monthly salary for yourself (food, fun, etc.)
10% of monthly salary you save.

Even on $30,000 per year FO salary, with taxes taken out, that gives you about $650+ for rent. You can find a nice one bedroom apt. on that. It gives you $460+ for transportation. $280+ for yourself, and allows you to save $180+ per month, which is over $2,000 for the year. Of course, you can adjust those as needed, by adding and subtracting from one or the other. For example, going 20% for transportaion, and 20% for yourself, and so on.

As your pay goes up, such as upgrade to captain, you can get a larger apt., buy a house, save more, etc. For example, lets say you are a 4th year FO at ExpressJet, and you upgrade to captain. Lets assume you fly 85hrs per month at $64 per hour, which is around $65,000 per year, plus or minus some.

That gives you
-$1,400+ for housing (you can buy a home on this)
-$1,000+ for transportation (even if it costs $50 per week to fill up your car with gas, that is $200 per month, leaving $800 for a car payment - thats a pretty nice car)
-$600+ for fun
-$400+ to save, which is nearly $5,000 saved for the year.

Again, you can adjust them to better fit your needs, such as if you don't have a car payment, or a low one, and don't need $1,000 per month toward transportion, you can add that to your housing, fun, or save more, etc.

Give it a try. If you don't try to live way above your means, you can live pretty comfortably. Remember, the average American salary today is $39,000 per year. And, even if you stayed at your captain pay mentioned above for the remainder of your career, although we know it will go up, lets assume you are 28 at that time, you can have, by age 60, $160,000+ saved, plus whatever you saved before.

Ok, so where is the electric bill, cell phone, water, cable, internet, medical benefits, etc. figured in? Those bills alone for me come in at a little over $300/month. Now I'm done to $350/month for rent. Don't forget the crashpad or hotels if you're a commuter, $150+ per month. How about student loans? Even at a light $14k of loan debt, I pay $110/month.

The budget thing is nice sounding in theory but is totally unrealistic. The only way I've made it is by having a GF live with me since college, having a car that I own outright and isn't a mx hog (go Volvos) and never going out to eat or spending my per diem. I use about $14/trip in food that I take with me on trips.

As a first year F/O -
85 hours x $23.86/hr = $2028.10 (after tax $1520, minus medical, dental, uniform, Flica access = $1425 AFTER deductions)
320 hours of per diem @ $1.40 = $448.00 (non tax)

Bottom Line
First year ~ $1873.00 take home
Second year ~ $2371.00 take home

I aggressively save for my 401(k) and Roth IRA's, to the tune of $400/month as a first year FO and I will increase that to $1000/month as a second year FO. IMO, it's MUCH more important to save for your retirement EARLY ON then get a better apartment, new car, etc. etc as you get a better pay scale. With compound interest I'll have $50k by 30 and $2.0mil @ 60 with a modest 8% return, assuming I only invest $12000/year after 30 (split between 401k and Roth IRA, including 4% company match). When I turn 30 I can live a killer life style. Getting that $$ in the bank NOW is worth it.

I'm even thinking about getting a second job part time 12 days a month - after tax it'll come in around $700/month extra. That'll be the house fund.

Now let's talk about investing - anyone think Japan is gonna go nuts here soon? I'm hoping...

where is the other 15%?

Don't look at the Unions................Look at who you voted for in 2000 and 2004. Just what miracles do you expect from unions with an anti labor administration and Greddy CEO's who use bankruptcy as a way to void labor contracts.

Under bankruptcy laws with the 1113 filings of NWA and DAL and Mesaba Hawaiin (I think) just to name a few............................................... .

What magic are you expecting?
Give me 80,000 Profesional Airline Pilots under one Union ( Are you listening SWA, AAL adn UPS) who are all ready and willing for a National supension of Service................and I bet things could change.

First find me all those Pilots who are willing and I'll give you a Union with some Clout. Until then we are all at the mercy of the courts and Anti- labor administrators. The Sad truth.