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a special ticket or just a commercial SE/ME?
-LA
I think that it requires an FAA waiver and a death wish.Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer
What do you need to crop dust?a special ticket or just a commercial SE/ME?
-LA
I work part-time for a company that specializes in aviation career counseling and interview prep.
Substitute teaching is also good if you can stand it. With a BA, I made just under $100 per day. It is perfect for pilots because you can set your own schedule and work when you want. The down side is that it isn't for the faint of heart. It is hard work. The low point for me was when I lost a fourth grader.
Additionally, with respect to savings, my recommendations are when you first get your pay raise, don't go right out and buy a new car or something. Get yourself out of debt. Your paycheck looks a lot bigger when you aren't sending thousands off to the credit card and student loan companies every month. If you don't have a car loan, you can scale back your car insurance and save money there as well.
Also, start saving while you are used to living on nothing. If you get used to spending your pay raise, it will be that much harder to start saving later.
And if you don't take advantage of your company's 401k matching funds, you are a moron. You are turning down free money. If you end up eating dog food in your retirement because the Democrats let social security go bankrupt, you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
Substitute teaching is also good if you can stand it. With a BA, I made just under $100 per day. It is perfect for pilots because you can set your own schedule and work when you want. The down side is that it isn't for the faint of heart. It is hard work. The low point for me was when I lost a fourth grader.
Additionally, with respect to savings, my recommendations are when you first get your pay raise, don't go right out and buy a new car or something. Get yourself out of debt. Your paycheck looks a lot bigger when you aren't sending thousands off to the credit card and student loan companies every month. If you don't have a car loan, you can scale back your car insurance and save money there as well.
Also, start saving while you are used to living on nothing. If you get used to spending your pay raise, it will be that much harder to start saving later.
And if you don't take advantage of your company's 401k matching funds, you are a moron. You are turning down free money. If you end up eating dog food in your retirement because the Democrats let social security go bankrupt, you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
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The budget thing is nice sounding in theory but is totally unrealistic. The only way I've made it is by having a GF live with me since college, having a car that I own outright and isn't a mx hog (go Volvos) and never going out to eat or spending my per diem. I use about $14/trip in food that I take with me on trips.
As a first year F/O -
85 hours x $23.86/hr = $2028.10 (after tax $1520, minus medical, dental, uniform, Flica access = $1425 AFTER deductions)
320 hours of per diem @ $1.40 = $448.00 (non tax)
Bottom Line
First year ~ $1873.00 take home
Second year ~ $2371.00 take home
I aggressively save for my 401(k) and Roth IRA's, to the tune of $400/month as a first year FO and I will increase that to $1000/month as a second year FO. IMO, it's MUCH more important to save for your retirement EARLY ON then get a better apartment, new car, etc. etc as you get a better pay scale. With compound interest I'll have $50k by 30 and $2.0mil @ 60 with a modest 8% return, assuming I only invest $12000/year after 30 (split between 401k and Roth IRA, including 4% company match). When I turn 30 I can live a killer life style. Getting that $$ in the bank NOW is worth it.
I'm even thinking about getting a second job part time 12 days a month - after tax it'll come in around $700/month extra. That'll be the house fund.
Now let's talk about investing - anyone think Japan is gonna go nuts here soon? I'm hoping...
Originally Posted by fosters
Ok, so where is the electric bill, cell phone, water, cable, internet, medical benefits, etc. figured in? Those bills alone for me come in at a little over $300/month. Now I'm done to $350/month for rent. Don't forget the crashpad or hotels if you're a commuter, $150+ per month. How about student loans? Even at a light $14k of loan debt, I pay $110/month. The budget thing is nice sounding in theory but is totally unrealistic. The only way I've made it is by having a GF live with me since college, having a car that I own outright and isn't a mx hog (go Volvos) and never going out to eat or spending my per diem. I use about $14/trip in food that I take with me on trips.
As a first year F/O -
85 hours x $23.86/hr = $2028.10 (after tax $1520, minus medical, dental, uniform, Flica access = $1425 AFTER deductions)
320 hours of per diem @ $1.40 = $448.00 (non tax)
Bottom Line
First year ~ $1873.00 take home
Second year ~ $2371.00 take home
I aggressively save for my 401(k) and Roth IRA's, to the tune of $400/month as a first year FO and I will increase that to $1000/month as a second year FO. IMO, it's MUCH more important to save for your retirement EARLY ON then get a better apartment, new car, etc. etc as you get a better pay scale. With compound interest I'll have $50k by 30 and $2.0mil @ 60 with a modest 8% return, assuming I only invest $12000/year after 30 (split between 401k and Roth IRA, including 4% company match). When I turn 30 I can live a killer life style. Getting that $$ in the bank NOW is worth it.
I'm even thinking about getting a second job part time 12 days a month - after tax it'll come in around $700/month extra. That'll be the house fund.
Now let's talk about investing - anyone think Japan is gonna go nuts here soon? I'm hoping...
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where is the other 15%?
As someone pointed out above, I accidentally left the other 15% of the formula out, which is for bills, such as cell phone, etc. On the $30,000 FO salary, that is nearly $300 for bills, which nearly covers your bills you mentioned. On the $65,000 captain salary, that is over $600 for bills. Again, the formula can be adjusted as needed. If you have higher rent, take away from transportation, and add to rent. If you need more for bills, take away from one, and add to bills. I think the formula really does work. The point is to live within the means of the formula, and not above those numbers, if at all possible. This goes for all people, in all professions, regardless of salary; not just pilots.where is the other 15%?
I am with you 100% with the saving. I have always been a big saver. I'm not one to get a larger salary, and go buy a very expensive car. I'd take the extra and save it.
As far as commuting, I think at least for your first couple of years as an FO, it makes better sense to live at your base. Commute after you become captain, if you'd like to move. Then you have more money to spend toward crash pads, etc.
Oh ok I missed that someone pointed that out already sorry.
Let me re-do the formula, including the other 15% I left out before.
Of monthly income:
-35% -> housing (mortgage, rent)
-25% -> transportation (car payment, gas, etc)
-15% -> yourself (fun, entertainment, etc)
-15% -> bills
-10% -> savings
On a $30,000 FO salary, with taxes taken out, it gives you roughly +/-
1) >$650 for housing
2) >$460 for transportation
3) >$280 for yourself
4) >$280 for bills (cell phone, etc)
5) >$180 for savings
*Edit: At ASA, for example, second year pay is $34/hr. Assuming 1,000 hrs. per year, which is what is usually used to calculate pay, gives you roughly $34,000 for the year. Taking out taxes, thats over $740 for housing, over $530 for car/gas, about $318 for yourself, $318 for bills, and $212 to save, which is over $2,500 in savings for the year. $740 gets you a pretty nice apartment. Lets say you spend $50 per week ($200/month) to fill your car with gas, which is probably on the higher end, unless you have a big SUV, that is $330 for a car payment, which is a nice car. You can still live a good life on FO salary, just live within your means. That is the point.
Lets say you become a captain after your fourth year as an FO, at ExpressJet. $64/hr, flying 1,000 hrs per year. Roughly $64,000 per year, +/-. Lets also assume you are married, and your wife makes at least $30,000.
That is a total income of $90,000, which gives you;
1) >$1,900 for housing
2) >$1,400 for transportation. (If you both have a vehicle that costs $50 a week to fill up, which is probably not the case for most cars, that still leaves over $1,000, or $500 each for a car payment, which is a nice car for both of you)
3) >$800 for yourself
4) >$800 for bills
5) >$500 for savings, which is nearly $7,000 in savings for the year.
Since commuting does cost extra, unless you have a reason you need, or have to live away from base, as an FO, it probably makes more sense to find a place to live at your base. Wait and commute, if you want to, after you have upgraded to captain, and have more money to put toward commuting. As an FO, your money is more limited, thus it is better not to have extra expenses where not necessary.
As you can see, it certainly does not take 5 other FOs splitting a one bedroom apt. to make it as an FO. Initially, first year, you can easily survive by just getting together with another FO during training, and you two split the rent of a two bedroom. After first year, I don't see a major need for a roommate, with most regionals, unless you just enjoy the company, and splitting of the costs. I know plenty of people who have made it fine on there own with less than FO regional pay. It can be done!
Of monthly income:
-35% -> housing (mortgage, rent)
-25% -> transportation (car payment, gas, etc)
-15% -> yourself (fun, entertainment, etc)
-15% -> bills
-10% -> savings
On a $30,000 FO salary, with taxes taken out, it gives you roughly +/-
1) >$650 for housing
2) >$460 for transportation
3) >$280 for yourself
4) >$280 for bills (cell phone, etc)
5) >$180 for savings
*Edit: At ASA, for example, second year pay is $34/hr. Assuming 1,000 hrs. per year, which is what is usually used to calculate pay, gives you roughly $34,000 for the year. Taking out taxes, thats over $740 for housing, over $530 for car/gas, about $318 for yourself, $318 for bills, and $212 to save, which is over $2,500 in savings for the year. $740 gets you a pretty nice apartment. Lets say you spend $50 per week ($200/month) to fill your car with gas, which is probably on the higher end, unless you have a big SUV, that is $330 for a car payment, which is a nice car. You can still live a good life on FO salary, just live within your means. That is the point.
Lets say you become a captain after your fourth year as an FO, at ExpressJet. $64/hr, flying 1,000 hrs per year. Roughly $64,000 per year, +/-. Lets also assume you are married, and your wife makes at least $30,000.
That is a total income of $90,000, which gives you;
1) >$1,900 for housing
2) >$1,400 for transportation. (If you both have a vehicle that costs $50 a week to fill up, which is probably not the case for most cars, that still leaves over $1,000, or $500 each for a car payment, which is a nice car for both of you)
3) >$800 for yourself
4) >$800 for bills
5) >$500 for savings, which is nearly $7,000 in savings for the year.
Since commuting does cost extra, unless you have a reason you need, or have to live away from base, as an FO, it probably makes more sense to find a place to live at your base. Wait and commute, if you want to, after you have upgraded to captain, and have more money to put toward commuting. As an FO, your money is more limited, thus it is better not to have extra expenses where not necessary.
As you can see, it certainly does not take 5 other FOs splitting a one bedroom apt. to make it as an FO. Initially, first year, you can easily survive by just getting together with another FO during training, and you two split the rent of a two bedroom. After first year, I don't see a major need for a roommate, with most regionals, unless you just enjoy the company, and splitting of the costs. I know plenty of people who have made it fine on there own with less than FO regional pay. It can be done!
transport drugs, learn which airports TSA frisks pilot and which ones dont
Quote:
The budget thing is nice sounding in theory but is totally unrealistic. The only way I've made it is by having a GF live with me since college, having a car that I own outright and isn't a mx hog (go Volvos) and never going out to eat or spending my per diem. I use about $14/trip in food that I take with me on trips.
As a first year F/O -
85 hours x $23.86/hr = $2028.10 (after tax $1520, minus medical, dental, uniform, Flica access = $1425 AFTER deductions)
320 hours of per diem @ $1.40 = $448.00 (non tax)
Bottom Line
First year ~ $1873.00 take home
Second year ~ $2371.00 take home
I aggressively save for my 401(k) and Roth IRA's, to the tune of $400/month as a first year FO and I will increase that to $1000/month as a second year FO. IMO, it's MUCH more important to save for your retirement EARLY ON then get a better apartment, new car, etc. etc as you get a better pay scale. With compound interest I'll have $50k by 30 and $2.0mil @ 60 with a modest 8% return, assuming I only invest $12000/year after 30 (split between 401k and Roth IRA, including 4% company match). When I turn 30 I can live a killer life style. Getting that $$ in the bank NOW is worth it.
I'm even thinking about getting a second job part time 12 days a month - after tax it'll come in around $700/month extra. That'll be the house fund.
Now let's talk about investing - anyone think Japan is gonna go nuts here soon? I'm hoping...
Originally Posted by fosters
Ok, so where is the electric bill, cell phone, water, cable, internet, medical benefits, etc. figured in? Those bills alone for me come in at a little over $300/month. Now I'm done to $350/month for rent. Don't forget the crashpad or hotels if you're a commuter, $150+ per month. How about student loans? Even at a light $14k of loan debt, I pay $110/month. The budget thing is nice sounding in theory but is totally unrealistic. The only way I've made it is by having a GF live with me since college, having a car that I own outright and isn't a mx hog (go Volvos) and never going out to eat or spending my per diem. I use about $14/trip in food that I take with me on trips.
As a first year F/O -
85 hours x $23.86/hr = $2028.10 (after tax $1520, minus medical, dental, uniform, Flica access = $1425 AFTER deductions)
320 hours of per diem @ $1.40 = $448.00 (non tax)
Bottom Line
First year ~ $1873.00 take home
Second year ~ $2371.00 take home
I aggressively save for my 401(k) and Roth IRA's, to the tune of $400/month as a first year FO and I will increase that to $1000/month as a second year FO. IMO, it's MUCH more important to save for your retirement EARLY ON then get a better apartment, new car, etc. etc as you get a better pay scale. With compound interest I'll have $50k by 30 and $2.0mil @ 60 with a modest 8% return, assuming I only invest $12000/year after 30 (split between 401k and Roth IRA, including 4% company match). When I turn 30 I can live a killer life style. Getting that $$ in the bank NOW is worth it.
I'm even thinking about getting a second job part time 12 days a month - after tax it'll come in around $700/month extra. That'll be the house fund.
Now let's talk about investing - anyone think Japan is gonna go nuts here soon? I'm hoping...
Before I mention this, the academy bashing thread is on page two of the regional forum. That said...
I acrued a heavy amount of debt at flight school, and my monthly payment alone is going to be well over my 1st year take home pay. Leaving a negative amount for rent, car.....
My plan from the begining has been to enrole in an online degree program and defer those loan payments till my wifey can get her feet on the ground at a big firm (lawyer). With her loan payments added to mine, we will be paying over $3200 a month in less than a year. Look out for the sugar mommas with TONS and TONS of soul crushing debt.
PS in New Jersey, you can make $300 for every "donation" to a certain "bank"
Just pass the physical and background check. Also helps if your not a moron.
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Yeah you bet it is. Thats why I got out of full time Aviation. It's horsesh!t if you aren't tied to one of the big majors.Originally Posted by buffalopilot
isnt it freaking rediculous that you need to supplement a career position.
Texas Hold'em at the Stardust on LAS layovers....
