boilerpilot

Haha, wow, just great, just absolutely great. Someday when you enter the world of the airlines you'll understand the way things actually work, and why somebody cheating on an airline written test is absolutely nothing to get worked up about. Not that I condone it of course, though, of course, pointing at the Gleim is a perfectly valid comparison.

Not trying to insult you, but you clearly have no understanding of the subject, and, again, no offense, come off sounding a little like a member of the media.

skywatch

Speaking of the media and the public, I think it is just great that a bunch of guys weigh in on a public forum and make it clear that the ethics of most airline pilots are such that cheating - your term - is not only acceptable, but to be encouraged. Then you turn around and bash the one guy that has the courage to point out that being entrusted with multiple lives every day is a serious thing and should be taken as such.

But hey, I guess none of you would care if the doctor that was about to operate on your daughter's brain tumor never had to study for a test in medical school because he had copies of them all.

Way to raise the bar.

ChinsFive

That's a pretty good comparison because doctors only take written tests to become brain surgons, and airline pilots only take written tests to get type ratings.

Man they should start making doctors do residencey's and observations, and airline pilots should take simulator rides and oral exams.

boilerpilot

I never said that I condone it, in fact, I said the exact opposite. I ask the question though, is studying for a written using Gleim cheating? Is a study guide cheating? These "copies of the test" are booklets of the test, containing thousands of questions, which the instructor then picks and chooses questions out of. The reason that this has become somewhat common practice is because these tests, much like the part 91 tests, contain errors in them, are misleading and poorly worded, or are just plain wrong. Unfortunately, due to the rapidly changing nature of the airline industry, the changes that render these questions irrelevant or incorrect is only exacerbated. Every time an AD comes out are you supposed to change the test? Every time a revision comes out are you supposed to change the test? Do you realize that the tests are controlled by a regulatory process and have to get approved, and that the approval process with the FAA takes longer than the intervals between most revisions? This isn't GA, where you get one meaningful change every three years.

Also, due to the complexity of the systems and topics involved, it is almost impossible to determine whether or not an individual has a true understanding of a subject when asked over three multiple choice questions. Can you really boil down the electrical system of even a Cessna to just three or four questions? What if you just happen not to know those four questions, but have a much deeper understanding of the logic, theory, and functionality of it than the guy/gal who happens to have breezed over the page containing the information asked in those questions and got them right? That is the reason for the oral.

Those who talk about something like this being the worst thing in the world (or uncommon) have no understanding of the checks that airline pilots have to go through on a continuous basis. If you don't know the material, you can't get through the oral, your sim sessions, your checkride, and your IOE, let alone day to day flying. Not only that, but you get to repeat the entire process every 6-12 months. Throughout my career, I've seen more pilots than I can count weeded out through not only the original orals/sims, but through the recurring ones as well.

Now, not everybody at every airline has cheated to get through every written. Some people use study guides that have been handed down from a former class. What do you think these study guides were based on?

Lastly, I point at one last comparison. Who here did NOT look at some sort of gouge when they went to do their interviews? Not to do so would be stupid for the exact same reason that I stated in my second paragraph.

Again, I don't condone cheating, but there are certain necessary evils and practices that come from multiple choice tests that unfortunately cannot be practically fixed.

boilerpilot

Hey now, don't go changing the world there. I'm also sure that all the written exams doctors get are multiple choice too... And wait a second, don't pilots require some sort of previous experience before flying for airlines?

flyviper

When I interviewed, the HR person stated if you guys didn't look at the online gouges, you're cheating yourself.

Emb170man

And as we've all agreed...that would be bad.

The Juice

I see you have been at Eagle for 20 years now...must be getting pretty close to upgrade.

I love how you can spot a cheat by reading a sentence on a forum. Lets see if I have the same powers...You sound like a blowhard who likes to act high and mighty and talk down to others.

As said before, if you cheat on the test you will get it handed to you on the oral. And you are naive to think the Gleim is not a way of cheating, after all, you have all the answers given to you beforehand because of a loop in the law

rickair7777

I would argue that the GLIEM is not cheating, because the law allows it. It is the FAA's responsibility to either change the law or change the test questions often enough to keep the question bank from being widely known.

In ground school, cheating is whatever the company says it is. If the instructors distribute "study guides" which contain all the exam questions, then great.

But if they don't distribute the questions, and don't allow old exams to be retained by the students then I would not want to get caught with a list of exam questions. It's their show...

Not all regionals do orals for FO's these days (not required) so the GS exam might have some relevance in that case.

boilerpilot

They don't? Jeez, that makes me feel comfortable. I've seen people cheat and not cheat on writtens and bomb the orals due to gross incompetence.

That being said, I agree with you that cheating is cheating and can also have variations of definitions based on the company. I don't condone cheating in any way, but if it happens, it neither bothers me nor is really worth any thought from me.