Latest at Mesaba
07-14-2008 | 09:07 AM
#41
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 992
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From: Lav
First born??? LOL......Please educate yourself on the history of these two airlines a little bit more before you share an opinion here.
07-14-2008 | 09:09 AM
#42
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 122
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From: Spinal Tap Drummer
It is obvious to me you are either incapable of reading the entire posts in a logical sequence or just pick and choose a sentence out of a post just to make your ludicurous accusations. Had you spent time reading Ftrooppilot post you would have realized my post was agreeing with what Ftrooppilot has written. No one knows whether Comair or Compass will be sold. That was a conjecture forwarded by Ftrooppilot and by others.
Nothing bogus about the fact if Compass is sold, NWA will award 18 additional RJs to Mesaba and 36 more RJs in addition to that. If you don't know why that is go do research on your own. Now go over to Compass thread and post your speculations there and stop wasting my time.
Nothing bogus about the fact if Compass is sold, NWA will award 18 additional RJs to Mesaba and 36 more RJs in addition to that. If you don't know why that is go do research on your own. Now go over to Compass thread and post your speculations there and stop wasting my time.
There are limits in the NWA/DAL JPWA as to how many overgrown RJs can be operated under the DL code. If CP is sold that's OK as long as the Flow down/up remains unchanged. If that goes away then the number of 76 seat jets they are allowed to operate under the DL code is reduced by 35 (i.e., they can't just replace those airplanes with others types/companies). If CP is sold it absolutely DOES NOT magically trigger 54 additional A/C to Mesaba, either under NWA contract language or JPWA language. It sounds like you are going off NWA contract language which allows a "lower cap" of 55 51 to 76 seat RJs and an "upper cap" of 90. If CP is sold under NWA contract language it does open the door for up to 19 more RJs for XJ (or who ever NWA feels like), not 54. The reason for this is because the "lower cap" would then apply, allowing only 55 RJs to be configured to 51 to 76 seats. If you would like to do some of your own research I have all of the applicable documents. Let's not turn this into a "mine is (insert adjective here)" contest please.
Last edited by Schwartz; 07-14-2008 at 10:10 AM.
07-14-2008 | 09:39 AM
#43
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 397
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From: CA
Dont take it so personal.. I could care less about the history.. My point is as the end of the day none of us knows what the hell will happen. It's funny watching you guys act like 5 year olds about this whole things... The whole my company will survive and yours post are so stupid... At the end of the day we are all step-childs... NWA screw Mesaba once before, dont start thinking you are so safe!
07-14-2008 | 09:45 AM
#44
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 992
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From: Lav
Dont take it so personal.. I could care less about the history.. My point is as the end of the day none of us knows what the hell will happen. It's funny watching you guys act like 5 year olds about this whole things... The whole my company will survive and yours post are so stupid... At the end of the day we are all step-childs... NWA screw NWA one before, dont start thinking you are so safe!
07-14-2008 | 04:14 PM
#45
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,206
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From: G550 Captain
You don't seem to get what I had in my previous posts. I don't have anything against you personally and don't forget that what happens at NWA/XJ/CP and soon to be Comair has an effect on all of us. I posted about CP here because it was brought up and was very relevant to the topic being discussed.
There are limits in the NWA/DAL JPWA as to how many overgrown RJs can be operated under the DL code. If CP is sold that's OK as long as the Flow down/up remains unchanged. If that goes away then the number of 76 seat jets they are allowed to operate under the DL code is reduced by 35 (i.e., they can't just replace those airplanes with others types/companies). If CP is sold it absolutely DOES NOT magically trigger 54 additional A/C to Mesaba, either under NWA contract language or JPWA language. It sounds like you are going off NWA contract language which allows a "lower cap" of 55 51 to 76 seat RJs and an "upper cap" of 90. If CP is sold under NWA contract language it does open the door for up to 19 more RJs for XJ (or who ever NWA feels like), not 54. The reason for this is because the "lower cap" would then apply, allowing only 55 RJs to be configured to 51 to 76 seats. If you would like to do some of your own research I have all of the applicable documents. Let's not turn this into a "mine is (insert adjective here)" contest please.
There are limits in the NWA/DAL JPWA as to how many overgrown RJs can be operated under the DL code. If CP is sold that's OK as long as the Flow down/up remains unchanged. If that goes away then the number of 76 seat jets they are allowed to operate under the DL code is reduced by 35 (i.e., they can't just replace those airplanes with others types/companies). If CP is sold it absolutely DOES NOT magically trigger 54 additional A/C to Mesaba, either under NWA contract language or JPWA language. It sounds like you are going off NWA contract language which allows a "lower cap" of 55 51 to 76 seat RJs and an "upper cap" of 90. If CP is sold under NWA contract language it does open the door for up to 19 more RJs for XJ (or who ever NWA feels like), not 54. The reason for this is because the "lower cap" would then apply, allowing only 55 RJs to be configured to 51 to 76 seats. If you would like to do some of your own research I have all of the applicable documents. Let's not turn this into a "mine is (insert adjective here)" contest please.
On a positive note, NWA appears to be building up both Compass and Mesaba by adding new destinations every month. If NWA can manage to avoid furloughing pilots (by all accounts NWA maybe able to avoid furloughs by making early buyouts of senior NWA CAs), Compass pilots appears to be in a solid position even after the merger.
07-15-2008 | 11:27 AM
#46
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,349
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From: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Would someone kindly post a copy of the NWA/DAL JPWA or provide a link. Many of us would like to be educated by reading the actual document rather then continuing with speculation or "he said, she said, etc." Thanks.
07-15-2008 | 05:35 PM
#49
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 122
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From: Spinal Tap Drummer
Section 1
SCOPE
SCOPE
Amend
Section 1 B. 28. to:
Delete all references to Alaska and AS hub to hub baseline ratios.
Amend Section 1 B. 40. to read:
40. "Permitted aircraft type" means:
a. a propeller-driven aircraft configured with 70 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 70,000 or fewer pounds, and
b. a jet aircraft certificated for operation in the United States for 50 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 65,000 or fewer pounds, and
c. one of up to 255 jet aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less ("70-seat jets"), and
Delete all references to Alaska and AS hub to hub baseline ratios.
Amend Section 1 B. 40. to read:
40. "Permitted aircraft type" means:
a. a propeller-driven aircraft configured with 70 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 70,000 or fewer pounds, and
b. a jet aircraft certificated for operation in the United States for 50 or fewer passenger seats and with a maximum certificated gross takeoff weight in the United States of 65,000 or fewer pounds, and
c. one of up to 255 jet aircraft configured with 51-70 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less ("70-seat jets"), and
d. one of up to 120 jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats and certificated in the United States with a maximum gross takeoff weight of 86,000 pounds or less ("76-seat jets"). The number of 76-seat jets may be increased above 120 by three 76-seat jets for each aircraft above the number of aircraft in the baseline fleet operated by the Company (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares) as of CBAID. The baseline fleet number will be 440+N, in which N is the number of aircraft (in service, undergoing maintenance and operational spares but not including permitted aircraft types) added to the Company’s baseline fleet from NWA. The number and type of all aircraft in the Company’s fleet on CBAID will be provided to the Association. The number of 70-seat jets plus 76-seat jets permitted by
Section 1 B. 40. may not exceed 255.
Exception: Up to the 36 EMB-175s that were operated and/or ordered by Northwest prior to CBAID may continue to be operated with up to a maximum gross takeoff weight of 89,000 pounds.
e. once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced. Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets.
Exception two: In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B. 40. d. will revert to 85.
f. a carrier that operates any of the 70- or 76-seat jets not being operated as of November 1, 2004, may do so only if that carrier and the Company have agreed to terms for a preferential hiring process for pilots furloughed by the Company (i.e., a pilot furloughed by the Company will be given preferential hiring at a Delta Connection Carrier if he completes all new hire paper work, meets all new hire airman and medical qualifications, satisfies background checks and successfully completes an interview). The Company will offer preferential interviews for employment to airmen employed by a Delta Connection Carrier that offers preferential hiring to furloughed pilots under Section 1 B. 40. e., subject to the Company’s objectives for diversity and experience among newly hired pilots, and subject to the Company’s hiring obligations under the NWA CBA LOAs as they appear in Attachment C (i.e. NWA LOA 2006-10, 2006-14, and 2008-01). A pilot hired by a Delta Connection Carrier operating any of the 70- or 76-seat jets not being operated as of November 1, 2004 will not be required to resign his Delta seniority number in order to be hired by such carrier. Preferential hiring rights at Delta Connection Carriers for pilots furloughed by the Company provided herein will be in addition to any flow down rights such furloughed pilots may have pursuant to the NWA CBA LOAs as they appear in Attachment C (i.e. NWA LOA 2006-10, 2006-14, and 2008-01).
Exception: Up to the 36 EMB-175s that were operated and/or ordered by Northwest prior to CBAID may continue to be operated with up to a maximum gross takeoff weight of 89,000 pounds.
e. once the number of permitted 76-seat jets is established, it will not be reduced. Exception one: If a pilot on the seniority list with an employment date prior to September 1, 2001 is placed on furlough, the Company will convert all 76-seat jets for operation as 70-seat jets.
Exception two: In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B. 40. d. will revert to 85.
f. a carrier that operates any of the 70- or 76-seat jets not being operated as of November 1, 2004, may do so only if that carrier and the Company have agreed to terms for a preferential hiring process for pilots furloughed by the Company (i.e., a pilot furloughed by the Company will be given preferential hiring at a Delta Connection Carrier if he completes all new hire paper work, meets all new hire airman and medical qualifications, satisfies background checks and successfully completes an interview). The Company will offer preferential interviews for employment to airmen employed by a Delta Connection Carrier that offers preferential hiring to furloughed pilots under Section 1 B. 40. e., subject to the Company’s objectives for diversity and experience among newly hired pilots, and subject to the Company’s hiring obligations under the NWA CBA LOAs as they appear in Attachment C (i.e. NWA LOA 2006-10, 2006-14, and 2008-01). A pilot hired by a Delta Connection Carrier operating any of the 70- or 76-seat jets not being operated as of November 1, 2004 will not be required to resign his Delta seniority number in order to be hired by such carrier. Preferential hiring rights at Delta Connection Carriers for pilots furloughed by the Company provided herein will be in addition to any flow down rights such furloughed pilots may have pursuant to the NWA CBA LOAs as they appear in Attachment C (i.e. NWA LOA 2006-10, 2006-14, and 2008-01).
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