i spoke to some union folks and heard the same, they are not happy about it being publicized

here's the thread where the article is being discussed

 

I think some of you miss the point. Perhaps because you lack most of the facts. The "union" has no right, other than identified in the Constitution and By Laws, to seek punitive action against another union pilot. This is bigger than most of you think.

It's not about JP, it's about all of us. In taking the steps they did, the MEC itself is in violation of several ALPA policies. In spite of what JP may or may not have done, most of us would agree we have a right to face our accusers and the right to hear those grievances in a proper forum. Simply passing a resolution to present a letter disciplinary in nature is not how the process works. This, not what may or may not happen to JP, is what has us upset.

Suppose an MEC member has a hard on for me. He approaches the MEC with allegations about me, gets enough votes to pass a resolution, and the next thing I know I'm on my way to SBY. I was never afforded the right to face my accusers or provided the chance to present my arguments.

Now I get a union rep to present my case. How does that work. On one hand they made allegations and on the other they have to defend me. This, among many other reasons, is why there are procedures to follow. The MEC didn't.

Had the proper protocols been followed, this would have never created a situation for the leak (very damaging for all of us) and still could have achieved the objective the MEC sought.

According to the words of our own leader, ALPA legal is concerned. When faced with their concerns the MEC let a few hot heads on the MEC take them down the wrong road. I like Chuck. In this case he let two idiots run wild. The end result was, the MEC addressed a potential wrong with a definite wrong. The classic example of two wrongs. We know how that ends up.

To quote a word from dash8, "apparently." I did not say I disagreed with the MEC's position, but it needed to be more than "apparently" before proceeding. If conducted properly the Buffalo News would have never had access. In response to your concern of the, "realm of inflammatory," the same applies to the MEC in a more legal fashion. When the MEC goes on record an said someone did something, it needs to be more than apparent, especially if it ends up in the media. If not, it's libel and that can get ALPA national in deep water. That is why ALPA legal is concerned. Bottom line, the MEC should have proven the allegations first in a proper forum and then proceed. I think that is what we would want had it been any of us.

 

i'm pretty sure the mec wouldn't have sent that letter on rumor and conjecture.
you can't hold all of alpa or our mec culpable for the letter being leaked where they attempted to "privately" address the issue of a management pilot abusing his authority and using the culture of fear the training department engenders to do worse than what you are demonizing the mec for doing. you sound like a company apologist. jp was offering probably illegal rewards for the ability to get two other alpa pilots terminated.
two wrongs don't make a right, but the intentional wrong greatly eclipses the unintended wrong
imho the leak/article is more damming for the company and the training department than for 'all of us'

 

[quote=dash8;776863]
what reason do you have to be ticked off at the union? its the company that furloughed you, not alpa. its the 'min staffing' ideology of the powers that be that decided to trim the ranks (and by extension, the payroll)/quote]

Fellow pilots picking up open time with people on the street...maybe the company wouldn't have the "min staffing" ideology if people weren't trying to help the company out and pick up that time. Maybe people need to notice who is picking up open time and expose them to the rest of the company. Or maybe our union needs to try to organize better and encourage people to not do this while people are on furlough. I hope I find out people who pick up open time when I and my friends are on the street...cause someday I will be back on property and I won't forget.

 

As far as the picking up open time goes, I agree with you. I think it's wrong and completely inconsiderate of your fellow union members on furlough. However its tough for the union to put a stop to it. Telling pilots to not pick up open time is considered a job action just like a strike and doing so now is illegal. I would like to see some pilots group together and talk to the people picking up open time but there is a fine line between a couple guys talking to a buddy and union members gathering to consult another member.

For the record, I am in no way supporting those picking up open time but I think we should be careful. We don't want to ruin our chances of success in negotiations because a few too many people told everyone to stop.

 

Well said and I agree with you. I also want to add that I am not against picking up open time as long as it doesn't better your line....if you need to move days around I think that is totally fair. I know of one guy who while on reserve likes to pick up trips on his day off and go below min days off. I think that is unacceptable.

My best friend at another airline who also has many many people on furlough thinks it is okay to pick up open time. He claims that by picking up those trips, he is not hurting the company. He says that the rsv pilots are not flying more than 30 hours a month so why shouldn't he get those trips? I told him that if they gave say a 3 day trip worth 20 hours to a rsv...then he would be flying 50 hours and still getting paid for 75. When you, a line pilot picks up open time, you are getting 1.5x your hourly rate which costs the company money because not only do they have to pay the rsv for 75 hours but you for your trip you picked up. He didn't understand that by doing that, he is showing the company that there is no need for more pilots. Most airines, not PDT, when they begin to see the need for more pilots through rsv working a ton and trips going to rsv CA's, might consider bringing people off the street.

 

Actually I don't think we got screwed. We got nine days instead of the full ten and we'll all bid for them when we bid for April. If you prorate our ten days for last year (12 months=10 days, 10 months=8.33 days) they actually rounded up, which was a pleasant surprise.

 

That is really great to hear! Congrats!!

 

T, we were back in Feb. that makes 11months. 11/12 = .91
They rounded down. Even ask Jim S. he will tell you that the company considers us with 11mos.

So, we lost out.

 

So will you gentlemen be keeping your LGA base open since USair/Delta swap is going down the tubes? Apologies if already discussed