jetBlue does. You can pick the E-190, A320, or first avail...

Yeah, right... As if your pilots have just now noticed that you have a poor contract, and will do something about it at the first opportunity...

Mesa has always existed on the basis of it's pilot group's willingness to accept a crappy contract in return for growth/advancement. So please do not try and fool anyone with notion that might change. Affterall, Airlines use Mesa only because of your cost, not your quality.

Make yourself more expensive with contract improvments and you will be replaced, just like you replaced sooooo many other carriers in the past...

so what you should say is...

 

WTF???

Mesa went from props to jets overnight...their first contract as a real jet operator was poisoned because the union gave up EVERYTHING to get scope in order to kill the Freedom alter-ego. The mesa pilot group has to pay the price for that on a daily basis, and YOU owe them for that...

The current pilot group is so ****ed off about QOL that a strike seems almost inevitable unless JO caves in on many issues (unlikely).

The majority of Mesa pilots are just like any other group, but often from the southwest, most are CFis', not PFTs...they work there for geographic reasons, not because they want to undercut anyone. Most of them would like to see Mesa at industry standard, even if it reduces growth opportunities. The newly elected MEC is made up of junior captains who are on a personal crusade to fix things in 2007.

You need to educate yourself before you go spewing sh*it out of your mouth about things that you clearly don't understand. Vent on JO & Mesa Mgt. all you like, but don't blame a pilot group that got bent over the table while killing a scab airline.

If things don't change with the upcoming contract, then feel free to come back and talk your trash..it would be justified in that case.

 

Thanks rickair777 for the post. Mesa's pilot group is stronger than ever right now, more senior pilots/lifers. We have a great new MEC Chairman a good friend of mine I know personally that will do every thing in his powers to help the pilot group. No Freedom SCAB airline hanging over our heads this time. About the only thing J.O. has to bring to the table for bargaining is preferential bidding and CASS. Other than that the ball is in our court our game and will win. WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH...

Mike
Mesa FO

 

Look kids, I have been working around Mesa (and the effects it caused) for longer than you have been flying. I have seen how Mesa operates since the beginning,and I am telling you that it has always been that way, and IMO always will be.

No one goes to Mesa for the contract. They go there for the quick upgrade. As a pilot group, Mesa's pilots have continually made the "deal with the devil" to accept a lesser contract in return for growth opportunites. Period.

I am betting that you both have been at Mesa just long enough to think you know what you are talking about. Think again.

I reallly doubt if you even know what happened with Centennial, Apsen, WestAir, Air Midwest, Allegheny, or Crown... So the more recent examples of CCAir (probably still too old an example), Air Wisconsin, or Atalantic Coast Airlines will have to suffice.

Plain and simple, you replaced other regional carriers (even in situations where that carrier was owned by the major airline) ONLY because Mesa cost less than the original carrier. Where exactly do you think that cost savings (in comparison to the other regionals) comes from...? Cheaper office supplies...?

Yeah, I have heard the same fluff about how "this time" will be different, but trust me, it never is.

Because the Mesa pilot group is more interested in getting jet time, or an upgrade, or a transition into a larger aircraft than they are worried about improving work conditions. Faced with the threat of reductions, downgrades, or even stagnation they have and IMO always will choose to improve their pay and working conditions with growth rather than contractual improvements.

It is easy to see why, improve your "own pay" by upgrading into the left seat, by flying something larger, by getting off of reserve... Just let those that hire on behind you take care of themselves... Blah blah blah. No one will admit it, (especially the real senior Mesa pilots) but that is why you have the contract you have.

I do not see what you are getting all defensive about. I really doubt you signed onto Mesa because you thought it would be a great place to work. No, I am guessing you heard they have a quick upgrade, fly lots of jets, and you can base throughout the country... Why would your priorities differ from the pilot group as a whole...?

IMO your pilot group will make a few token improvemtns this time, but nothing too big. Although you do not see it right now with the recent expansion, by 2007-2009 there will be a couple of chances for Mesa to continue to grow, or to shrink in size/scope. You pilots will talk a good talk, but when it comes time to vote, IMO the majority will choose more CRJ-900 flying over accepting a downgrade and/or displacement.

Say what you want, but history has a way of repeating itself, and chances are better than not that for Mesa, it will.

 

I am not a kid by any stretch. You should remember the days when nobody needed to spend more than 3 years at a commuter...so nobody cared about anything other than turbine PIC. Actually I ended up where I am due to geography, the recomendation of a friend, and the faulty assumption that one regional was much like another...this was before there was all this good gouge on the internet. Even most of the PFT people have no real idea what they're doing. I suppose I could just quit, but then I'd only be replaced by someone who gets paid less.

There are probably a few folks, including PFT who couldn't even get a job anywhere else, who are willing to do anything for their own short term gain or to avoid a layoff, but that is not representative of the group as a whole. If I can help fix it next time, I will, if not I'm gone...what more do you want???

BTW, what is it that makes other pilot groups "better" than Mesa pilots?

Next time speak to what you know...DO NOT put words in my mouth or motives in my name. Do you have ANY constructive suggestions or ideas?

I'm sure most airline CEOs would just love your rants, you are a f*cking poster child for the divide-and-conquer strategy...create enough hate and discontent between pilot groups, then maybe next time the Mesa pilots will vote to accept the 737s that they turned down in 2004...

 

I think Mesa has grown substantially from turboprops to jets in a short period of time and an improved contract is imminent. If only just to catch up with the growth.

 

HAHAHAHA thats good!

 

Yeah, you guys are right, soon your pay and work rules will lead the industry... And then your airline will be systematically dumped by every major.

No one uses Mesa because of Quality, only because of Cost.

Well sport, I thought mentioning Air wiskey and Atlantic Coast in the previous post would have clued you in. Their contracts were alot better than yours, thus they were more expensive contracts for those companies. When United said "do it as cheap as Mesa or we will replace you..."

Well, you know the rest of that story.

I will no longer put words in your mouth. But I will ask a few simple questions. Would YOU, be willing to walk the picket line for a month like Comair...? Would you be willing to maintain the strength of your contract at the expense of seeing your flying go elsewhere like Piedmont...? Would YOU be willing to have all of the CRJ-900's parked in the future because it is now cheaper for the majors to operate that flying like US Airways, Northwest, and jetBlue are starting to do (whose pilot groups had to take deep concessions so they could keep that flying instead of losing it to you guys)...?

Go ahead, answer the big question, are YOU willing to downgrade back to F/O or never upgrade in return for better QOL at Mesa...? Are the Majority of Mesa pilots willing to do the same...?



Suuuure, many of your guys probably think such a thing will "never happen", but what exactly do you think Johnny O is going to threaten your pilots with this time...?

With the Dash and Beech flying tenuous at best, and the market for 50 seat jets drying up fast, you can damn well bet that in the next two years he will hold that over you guys (if not beforehand).

And he is right, the ONLY way for you guys to maintain what you have, or to continue to grow is to undercut other pilot groups. why else use you guys if you are not cheaper...?

Your good looks Hmmm, nope.

Scoll to the thread that has Horizon asking it's pilots for pay cuts to remain competitive. WTF do you think they are talking about having to compete pay-wise...?

Every other pilot group out there has wished and prayed for Mesa to fight for a better contract, only to see them cave in again and again. And then we get to watch you take over our flying as a result (most recently in IAD, CLT, and CLT). So yeah, I take issue with your promise that your pilot group will do things differently "this time".

Good luck in your upcoming "negotations". I will look you up after they are done to say "I told you so" when you see that I am right.

 

No one is under the illusion that Mesa will be industry-leading in anything.

True.

Blame JO.


I am either going to fix it or leave. If I leave for another airline, I do not want JO crawling up my ass later, so I would prefer to leave the company in ashes.


Me? Sure. Ive said that 100 times. Everybody else...well you probably can't imagine the level of rage within the group directed at management (see www.mesahub.com ). I think there are enough to get it done.



We have only a handful of each, with more D8's coming soon. It's a niche market which will remain unless Jet A hits $0.25/gal.

I can only speak for the last one (we blew EVERYTHING on Freedom) and the next one...I'll do my best.

BTW does it mean anything to anyone else that freedom is dead??? They would have been operating 737s out of PIT...yes, SEVEN THIRTY SEVENS

I'll be gone anyway if that's the case.

 

Yeah well, good to hear that stuff, but you know as well as I do that you are probably in the minority at Mesa.

As for Mesa/Freedom in 737's at PIT, all I know is that you ARE in CRJ-900's in CLT right now. Those planes replaced enough of OUR 737's (that's seven thirty sevens) to keep me from being recalled...

So excuse me for being so glib when it comes to appreciating your "victory" with Freedom. Back then your guys were not willing to call JO on his ability to both transfer all of the flying to the new certificate, and his ability to get enough of your guys to jump ship (to fly all of) the Freedom planes. Instead your pilot group took the safe route (and only got scope) because IMO you did not trust yourselves enough. And THAT is why I said the opinions you expressed unfortunately are in the minority at Mesa.

Why...? Because if your pilots had held off for both Scope and an improved contract, chances are real good that you would not have seen a fraction of the growth you ended up having... Most of the guys that voted "yes" back then knew this (and still do).

Like I said, good luck to you and others that share your opinions, but please do not expect the rest of the industry to be easily convinced that anything has or will change at Mesa. Once bitten, twice shy.