Didn't come off that way. You WERE quoting me directly. Like I said, you SERIOUSLY need to get a clue before you start making assumptions about people are "trained to think", as you put it.


Your flamebait in a previous post indicates otherwise.

But please, tell me what you remember about the emails sent out my the UAL JS coordinator back in the spring of 2005. Heck, he even put it up on the ALPA national message board. We can compare notes.

But like I said, go ahead and start a JS war.

 

I think most regional pilots would support a nationwide walkout for better work rules and pay, I would. But good luck organizing it. I'm the last person to give advice on legal issues, but I'm pretty sure that it would not be legal anyway.

And on a completely seperate subject, remember what happened when the ATC controllers went on strike 30 years ago? All fired. They thought there was no way they would lose their jobs. They were wrong.

 

It's against the law for federal employees to strike. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on, what they did was against the law.

 

I would definately walk out. Lets face it, out of all pilot in the world who gets treated like a dirt and a lowest pay? Us!!! I think we are just afraid that one might back stab another and go back to work. I think if there is even little bit of unity i personally think that everyone would join. Think about it. I was watching a news couple of weeks ago and they were predicting that there is going to be a hugh shortage in pilots. Yea, thats a good thing, but it would be even better if we start to stick together right now. Think about other countries where the pilots get treated like a VIPs. In US, we fly for food!!! I hope we get treated like a white collar workers, one day.

 

None of the above.

But I would be willing to have a single seniority list.

 

dojetdriver,
Understand and valid observations. My point is that our challenges we collectively face as professional pilots must be addressed one step at a time. Strategically, each union group needs to press for this langauge all the time when in negotiations. Example: Pay for training has always been our bane. If various unions negotiate a "no pay for training " clause when the regionals are hiring by the fist fulls, then management would be more willing to negotiate since it would not change their current cost structure.

Understand the costs to obtain industry leading language, but hope you would agree the long term payoff is worth the journey? The real difficulty is two fold; 1) the real agents of change need to be the current crews, especially Captains to take the leadership roles that actually places our profession above short term interests. Will we be willing to make the sacrifice?
2) ALPA,CAPA, and the rest of the unions need to work together strategically to make this iniative a reality. (Can we overcome the parochialism? Can we spare the differences to work on common ground issues? )

Airlines like Skywest will eventually be unionized. It is only a matter of time before the pilot group will make the crossing. Unions should court an airline with realistic expectations, not fear or ripping up a company. Suffice it to say, if approached in a manner like insurance, may not like it, but majority appreciate the value of having it for a bad day. Unions really do the same, union negotiates a contract for a pilot group regardless of who is in the front office.

 

Agree on all the above points.

Absolutely, of course I agree the payoff would be worth it.

But one of the many problems is this. I'm sure you have been through more than one negotiating process. Whether it was on the way up, OR the say down. I have, and EVERYTHING comes at a price. The fact is there is only some much negotiating capitol to go around. And sadly, in this climate, it's getting less and less. You now run into the problem of what you would be willing to forgo to get this language, it's not going to come for free. To illustrate the point, I believer you are UPS? IF not, forgive me. But why did you guys not shoot for UAL/DAL pre-9/11 payrates and NOTHING less? With the insane profits that UPS makes, why was this not achieved? Please understand, I'm not flaming you or other UPS guys. Just trying to make the point. If you could have gotten them, what would the rest of your CBA look like? The regionals don't have anywhere near the clout that a legacy or cargo carrier has. Especially if the legacy the regional feeds for is in financial straits. Add to that the FACT that many (myself included) are at the regional level as a means to an end. I believe you did the same thing? Doesn't mean I DON'T care about those behind me, but there are too many that don't.

Agree, and yes, I wish we could.

This is a tough one. If I'm not mistaken, the previous union drives were pretty close to getting the nod. The most recent one didn't come anywhere close. And with the current state of the regionals, I don't think it's going to swing back the other way. And the sad truth is that JA does a good enough job to keep them happy, or AT LEAST content enough not to organize. And talking to some of my friends that work there, it's not too hard to understand.

Yep.

 

it's already in our contract. if a codeshare strikes, we will not fly for them.

 

Just to clarify, does that mean as an example, if USAir went on strike you would not do ANY USAir flying? Or, if ANOTHER USAIR EXPRESS carrier went on strike, you would not do any of the USAir Express flying? or BOTH?

 

Go back and read it again. It was a seperate paragraph, after the one where I responded to you. If it were meant for just you, it would have been part of the same paragraph.