That would be debatable whether it means codeshare partner or only another contract carrier. I doubt mainlines would be flying feed if they are on strike and it definately applies to us performing "replacement" duty.

 

Fair enough, but you did a crap job of quoting/editing on the ORIGINAL.

As far as this "trained to think" bullsh1t, like I said, you really need to not make those kind of ASSumtions.

You said you were up to the bet, so tell me all about UAL's JS fiasco in 2005 and how you think it would be a good idea now.

 

You are correct. Nothing is free, reason that all unions need to have a common strategic vision regarding certain central tenets of our profession. i.e. Pay for training, Scope, entry pay, etc. Don't believe it is possible to have a national pilot union. What is possible is all unions adhering to a common core of "doctrine's" that all managements know we will achieve. We would be willing to give productivity gains in certain areas to make these concrete gains in our coordinated 'doctrine' areas. In the short term, management would see a more comprehensive and effective leverage of one pilot union to another. If we walked like ants on a trail <bg>, sure, a few may get scattered in the inevitable challenges, but the message would be clear (much like a national union or guild) that the pilots are coordinated and willing to perservere.
Am UPS. We did attempt for the highest rates, we really did pretty well. We have some of the highest guarantees and pay rates in the industry. You correctly describe though, it costs something, and we also had to compete with carriers in freefall. That is a market reality. We could have had the rates though, but the payback in other areas of the CBA were unteneable (dramatic pension, medical givebacks for example)
Realize as am sure you do, the management ultimately sees the cost of the CBA at X$. The pilots have a certain flexibility on how to spread the $$. It is a total package. I propose that we union pilots demand that our leaders coordinate strategic doctrines. One that coordinates all of us, not just legacies, LCC's, Cargo, ACMI, etc. I say we go for ALL professional pilots. We need vision and enough crews who are willing to spend their career achieving these goals. I believe would work, even if current Capts did not want to lead. <g>. Actually probably better the more junior/younger ones take over leadership roles.

 

That was the point I was making.

EXACTLY! "market reality", that is the core problem. We can all talk tough as pilots about what we want, the market unfortunately dictates otherwise. IE; pre/post 9/11. And just like you had to compete with carriers in freefall, what are considered the upper tier regionals have to compete with the lower tier. Where UPS/FedEx has to compete with the lower tier ACMI's. Like you said, it's market reality.

Again, illustrating my point exactly. Regionals could have the unity we want. But that would make the pay and workrules miserable, because that would be the cost. Sure, the younger guys might be able to hang, but the oldtimers making a career out of it would give not only a no but hell no.

Tough to say as to who should take the lead. The older guys have the benefit of experience and seeing many of these scenarios played out before. Sadly, many of them seem to have an amnesia if you will. You know, can't seem to remember anything and make the EXACT same mistakes. The younger guys would have the drive, but many not the wisdom to see it through. And BOTH have the potential to do everything for SELFISH gains. The "I got mine" mentality that is prevalent REGARDLESS what segment you are in.

 

Thanks, and I reviewed my orginal, and you're right, it was a terrible job of quote and reply... and I see where the confusion came from.

Didn't come out right, but the general principle behind it was sound.

If you really want to discuss it, I will; in a PM where it won't start another war.... JS wars are never a good idea... they are a tool of final resort, not first; that said, they do have a place and time.