Well im done arguing with you.

You have not had a solution to this point, you just like to complain. There is nothing you or I can do or change about the job so it is take it or leave it.

I have given you a solution so you don't have to deal with all these problems anymore.....quit....but you don't seem to like that one so you will sit in your current job, ticked off at the world, and be just like the rest of us and take whatever we can get. Only difference is I am happy where I am at and it sounds like you aren't.

 

Quitting is not a solution. Too many people are in too deep to quit. It's a job that should be well paid. I think you should give more credit to people that are trying to educate you about the industry.
Even if you have a million bucks in the bank working for free is wrong. Wrong for a lot of reasons. But mostly because other people, the ones that don't have a million bucks, need a decent paying job to feed their kids. And just because you might have a million bucks doesn't mean that you should devalue this job and work for free.
How about the CEO's? They are all millionairs. Think they work for free?
Nope....and we shouldn't either.
So replace "Free" with 20 grand and it's crazy. Just friggin crazy that our wages are so low. Best thing we can do is educate younger people to find another career. $100k for school so you can earn $20k. Nuts

 

To individuals who don't have much debt to pay back to some university, or bank, then the job probably does seem ok. A good chunk of things is based on how you look at it, but if you look around the airline industry and think things are all peachy then you should take off your rose colored glasses.

There are individuals who do enjoy being off work for half the month or more. There are also individuals who don't look at the time off work, but the time away from home, away from friends, and away from family and your own bed. When you're writing a check out every month for a couple grand for a lovely home you spend half the month away from, five hundred dollars for the car you rarely drive, a hundred fifty for the motorcycle in the garage, not to mention the student loan payments and bills, and the thoughts that "when i get home, compete the honey-do-list, mow the lawn, fix the sink, ride the motorcycle, and relax enough not to dread doing back to work, it will dig on you a little bit, then you'll have kids.

I wouldn't try to be a downer on anyone, a person's choice is a person's choice. But you can't go around thinking that just because your aviation experience is rosy that everyone else is in the same predicament. Once i upgraded, i seemed to fly with guy after guy who was looking a $100+ loan in the face, barely able to pay the interest, and have a job that pays pennies. All the while, you think of how "awesome" it'll be to make 150k a year at Southwest, he's thinking that with 150k, he'll FINALLY be able to make payments....not even money for "toys" and living yet. And by the time it's done, he'll be 65, and ready to retire.

 

Did some job hunting outside of "flying" not necessarily aviation. There was a little desk job out there that i interviewed for, with garmin's aviation division. As the HR rep went through the list of perks, i began to almost drool. Location within minutes of my home, in your own bed every night, not going to lose your job for a medical, or missed altitude, 3 medical plan options of which the first two plans are 100% paid by the company, 14 days of vacation starting during the first year, Stock options that were unreal as in you could literally supplement your income with them, excellent retirement, performance based raises, and a 75% match on your 401k.......75%. obviously, i didn't get the job. It did show me however, what other type of work is available out there besides airline gigs. It may not be "all that and a cup of tea" compared to flying a jet, but it might make things worth while and livable.

 

So in other words you are saying that you are perfectly content with the poverty level wages you are getting paid to do a responsible job, where with every mistake that you make, could mean you losing it?

You are doing a job, that in other parts of the world guys are making more then two times the money you are, doing it. Why should you be doing it for less? Now there are even other airlines out there who are asking for concessions again! Next time you are pushing back, look around you.. you will find any other full-time employee you are surrounded by probably makes more then you.. then take a couple of seconds and think about that. This year I will probably make as much as a flight attendant, how in God's name is the proper?

Don't get anybody here wrong, we are all glad that you are doing well and are happy with your job. But don't go and expect everybody else to be satisfied with it as well, and don't try to convince them that everything is just peachy. You are in a position where you don't care because of an obvious lack of obligations you have to take care of. Wait till you are in a need of money, almost like every other person here, you will be whistling a different tune.

I love to fly, but to be honest I was expecting a little more $$ to pay off some of the debt I have, not to mention save up for something else I am aiming towards. I am single, no kids, no family, no nothing but just me and my debt and I live fine, but cannot save a dime, meaning I am stagnating and not heading towards my goal. I can't imagine having a family.. all while the management of that is screwing you, while your in some hotel on Christmas is flaunting that you work for one of the better regionals out there.... and the worst part is, the majority of the pilots say, hell... we do don't we? Talk about low-standards.

 

I know a thing or two about poverty level wages, I'm an FO at the lowest paying regional in the country. And it sucks, but concider this: If everyone made a descent wage (what you think you should be paid) the company you work for would go Tango Uniform (BK) very quickley.

Look at United guys, before the last time they entered BK, those pilots got the best and bigest contract of the indusrty and shortly put that company into BK. I'm not trying to slam UAL guys or any other major airline pilots, you/ we are hard working profesionals and deserve to compensated acordingly. I understand that that there was more to those guys going into BK like, cough, CEO salaries, stock options/dividends, and millions in unwarented bonuses, cough.

When negotiating for a new contract the union/pilot group must find a happy medium with the company. It should be the union who analizes the quarterly and anual reports. If you take too much you may not have a job to come to one day, and if you take too little your QOL is terible.

 

My typical week:
Hang out at home working on web development projects
Knock off at 2-3pm, go for a mountain bike ride
If OFF, drink beer after ride...if RESV, don't
Come home, cook supper for wife/kids, clean up, do baths, bedtime
Begin reserve period at 1900, check reserve list/flow board to assess likelihood of being called in to work.
Likelihood near zero
Back to computer, plan tasks for tomorrow.
Go to bed.

I get called in to work about 2x a month and do an overnight trip when I get called in.

Figure as long as I'm only making the 75hr monthly guarantee and first year pay rate, my best strategy is to work as little as possible so I can keep my billable hours at the other job as high as possible.

That's the only way I can financially justify the regional airline FO job.

 

Thanks for all the info, looks like I wont fly much on reserve but I guess you have to pay your dues to do what you love.

 

Figured I'd leave something on here on what it is like to be married and have lots of overhead and still do this job.

Pros:

Besides the usual, "You get to fly" stuff:

It is nice to leave home from time to time. My wife cleans the house while I am gone, shops, etc. Usually, when I get home from a trip, most of the household logistics are done such that I can just relax and enjoy my time off. When I worked a desk job, it just felt like logistics (dishes, cooking, dogs, etc) consumed my life.

Another pro is that even though the pay sucks, it is sort of satisfying to print my pairing out and figure out how much I am going to make on a trip. I'll tell my wife that I'll be gone for 4 days and will come back $600 wealthier (I am an F/O). And in a way, the whole 4 day feels like 1 day at work with a regular job. Its just longer.

Another benefit is that I have sort of made it my goal to spend the entire four day benefiting myself in someway. Clearly, when I am working, I am logging hours and getting paid, but when I am in the hotel, I try to use the gyms, read something interesting, etc. Wasted time (esp when not with my family) is a challenge to deal with.

Cons:

I commute.

As a commuter, sometimes I have back to back trips, so will occasionally go 6 or 7 days away from home. My wife works M-F, so if I cannot get weekends off, then we don't see each other too often.

Radiation concerns me, honestly. Overall increase in health risk certainly concerns me. Waking up at 4am in the morning and looking forward to freezing my butt of in ORD weather or treking through the snow, etc sucks sometimes.

And, again, as a commuter, I usually dread day 4. I am excited to go home, but the risk of a junior, mechanical delay, full flights home, etc weighs on my mind the entire day.

Most of my problems are related to commuting, I must admit.

Additionally, at my airline, we are treated like ditch diggers. There is very little professional regards that are common courtesy in other professions. The memos we get, the lack of notice we get regarding displacements, furloughs, etc.

 

With some McDonalds cheese burgers thrown in, id say this is a pretty acurate diagram of the week of an airline pilot.