I think we all got your message the first time.

Your previous post about TW was technically legal but in very poor taste...I think it says a lot about someone when he kicks a man who's down :mad:

The FO transition failure goes back where he came from.

I'm not sure if the SKW policy is particularly well written, but NOBODY here mis-understands the up-or-out policy. I think they remind you before you commit to upgrade training. Most folks knew about before we took the job in the first place.

[QUOTE=de727ups;485771Here's an unanswered question. Besides AA, who else has this policy? Anybody? Why would Skywest pilots support a policy that seems to be quite rare in the industry?[/QUOTE]

Eagle also has that policy.

Just a lesson for everyone else. The questions TW got shouldn't be on a type ride. In TW's case, he was also getting his ATP. In the eyes of an examiner, you are getting two check rides. Answer some ATP questions then some a/c specific ones. Those questions were legit for the ATP certificate. If you don't want to run the risk, go to a weekend warrior course and get your ATP before you go for a type ride.

TW and I are at similar stages in life, and in my opinion the important issues here are loyalty and respect, as opposed to the technicalities of "upgrade" vs "transition" (if we were 22 year-olds fresh out of 'Riddle, then the situation might be different). Loyalty is a two-way street, and personally I would rather work as a crack-wh*** than give that kind of organization the satisfaction of begging for my old job back! Also, "when one door closes another one opens." For example, I know of a job possibility that I told TW about (although I don't know if he'll pursue it) that doesn't involve growing a long beard and wearing a turban.

While the contract language may seem ambiguous, unfortunately, the terms and definitions within come straight from the FARs:

For your benefit, I've included a snippet about what a "group" is (as referenced in part 1 in the previous quote):


Like I said, there's unfortunately not a whole lot of gray area in terms of what counts as "transition" and "upgrade". Because turboprop (I.E. EMB120) is not in the same training "group" as a turbojet (I.E. CRJ), you must use the "upgrade" phraseology instead of the more lenient "transition" phraseology.

You're absolutely correct about loyalty and respect, I believe the debate about terminology was in reference to a question about the possibility that TW was wrongfully terminated, against the contract. That being said, I agree with you wholeheartedly about begging for an old job back.

Loyalty should be a two-way street, but it is rarely found in actuality. Many thought (think) it existed (exists) at SkyWest. Some are learning different.



SkyWest has no contract.

SkyWest has no contract.

SkyWest has no contract.


There is no Collective Bargaining Agent -- no union -- so there can be no contract.


SkyWest employees are at-will employees. They can be fired for no reason at all. Any reason at all. (Well, except for discrimination against a protected class.) They can be fired for tubing one oral, or for having a wrinkled shirt.

Game over.







.

Tony, it's nice to see you posting again.

Good luck trying to convey your message;).

Time for the you-know-what flag...

SKW does not fire people lightly, that is a well known fact. If you don't work there you don't really have the slightest clue about how things work.

In TW's case there was likely more than meets the eye, and none of us here know the full story, perhaps not even TW.


100% True. Neither do 95% of American workers.

I was a corporate manager in a previous life.

As you mentioned, At-Will employees are protected from discrimination by specific laws (ie protected classes). This doesn't mean you can't fire a protected class, you just need to document that it was for legit reasons (and you might get sued anyway).

But At-will (and any other) employees are also protected by the general concept of Tort...in short you cannot treat someone unjustly. What does unjust mean? Whatever you want it to mean, as long as you can convince a jury! Another SKW pilot recently won a lawsuit along those lines.

They cannot fire you for not ironing your shirt...because they do not fire EVERY employee who wears wrinkled clothes. Same with any other trivial offense.

Most of us rely on SKW managment to do the right thing, and they almost always do (they had better, if they want to stay union-free).

Pilots who get fired at SKW almost invariably did one of these things:

- Show up drunk
- Fail a drug test
- Lie
- Commit repeated safety violations (one of which involves the NTSB).
- Aggressively and REPEATEDLY P/O other people, including manangers.
- Fail new-hire training.

Apparently upgrade training as well after reading this thread. Not slamming the guy or kicking him when he's down. It's just a fact that's been revealed.