Up and Out Policies: Upgrade
 

I started this in response to a post I saw on the CRJ checklist thread that was closed.

Tony mentioned that he was fired for not successfully completing the E-120 upgrade course. He made mention of an "up-and-out" policy in which you are fired unless you can successfully upgrade.

While I don't like to see any pilot "fail" professionally, I see the merit in such a policy.

Being a good F/O is an art, and there are many of them out there. At some point, each person needs to be able to upgrade and accept the responsibility of being a PIC. This also prevents a lopsided seniority list, where you have 10 year people in the right seat, clogging up the upper end of F/O seniority lists. I know there are thousands of 10 year F/O's at the majors. This is by no means anything to be ashamed of, as individuals cannot control when their seniority can hold a captain seat. I simply used 10 years due to the fact that we are talking about regional airlines.

SWA also has an "up or out" policy, where when the time comes, each F/O must enter the upgrade process. Their policy, as I understand it, allows each pilot to fail the upgrade process once, and return to the right seat. After at set amount of time back in the right seat, the F/O must re-enter the upgrade process. At that point, unless he/she can complete the course, that pilot is fired.

I know we have a lot of lifer F/O's here at Mesa, one of them seniority number 20. It is rumored that he successfully upgraded once, got into trouble, and was sent back to the right seat permanently. He still wears 4 stripes.

Is this the kind of envionment that is conducive to safe flight? An 18 year employee in the right seat with a 6 year captain - do you think such a captain would have his authority challenged?

is this the same tony that was a sapa rep? if it is then the very people he defended have let him down. i know he didn't want alpa at skywest but maybe alpa would have been the one to help him keep his job. that is very sad and tony i wish you the best.

as far as the up and out policy i think it is ridiculous. if you want to be a life fo then thats your decision. we have several retired airforce guys that have been here for 15 years plus and they are fos at pinnacle. they are strictly here for the travel and medical benefits. they all get weekends off, they all get 20 plus days off. if they were on the captain side there wouldn't be much competition, but there would be some. i have been at pinnacle for nearly 3 years now. if i were to upgrade now i would be sitting airport ready reserve and home reserve for the forseeable future. i like my qol now and until i can at least hold i line i don't plan on upgrading. and also at pinnacle if you fail upgrade you go back to the right seat, no harm no foul. you get 2 attempts at upgrade per the contract. it is companies discretion after that.

and p.s. i have flown with captains who have only been here a year. yet when we fly together they are still the captain and i am still the fo, no matter how long we have been here.

RAH has some..... there are several with seniority numbers in the 300 range.... on a list where 1000 or so will hold captain positions that are FOs....

One that I specifically know of ...well, she passed her training but failed her FED ride.........

Certainly pilots should be allowed to defer upgrade for some period of time ...but at some point, there should be a requirement to upgrade....

Tony wasn't forced to upgrade, there is no rule that says you have to upgrade at SKW. Not sure if you also meant SKW but I thought I'd throw that out there. We do have lifer FO's here. I know of one who has a family and a business so upgrading would mean a commute and it just isn't in his best interests. Tony upgraded from CRJ FO to EMB Captain which isn't easy at all. I sure as hell wouldn't try it.

What is SKW's policy? Do you only get one shot?

From what I read in that other post, yes.

I do think it is unacceptable to not offer someone who has just failed their first attempt at upgrading to captain, a chance to return to their position as first officer.

How anyone can vote down a union with a policy in place like that is beyond me, I think they are crazy, but that is a different topic.

"I know we have a lot of lifer F/O's here at Mesa, one of them seniority number 20. It is rumored that he successfully upgraded once, got into trouble, and was sent back to the right seat permanently. He still wears 4 stripes."

If your talking about the PHX Captain who is now the #1 FO in PHX he is not permanantly downgrounded I think they put him the right seat for either 6 months or a year, amd he is not wearing 4 stripes anymore.

IMO, you should always be allowed to return to your previous seat and position if you fail your first attempt at upgrade...especially from a Jet FO to Prop CA position.

I also don't believe a single training failure should EVER cost you your job, from #1 to a probie doing his/her initial check.

I agree that you should get 2 chances at upgrading but I am of the belief that if you can't hack being a captain, you shouldn't be doing this job.

In regards to the Pinnacle guys: If they've been there 15 years, wouldn't they hold a line that had the weekends off as well. 15 years at Mesa gets you that, even in PHX.

Anyone who says they haven't upgraded at 15 years is hiding behind the QOL excuse.

lol, before you make a broad statement like that check your facts. remember i said several of them are retired airforce. from b52 guys to fighters. i think after flying for the airforce for 20+ years and the action they have seen as captains of their planes i can assume they can hack it at being a captain at pinnacle airlines, just dont want to.

I've got a story for you guys about the AA up or out policy. An fo I flew with at skyway got hired on at AA around 98 or 99. She was a side seater on the 727, 9/11 came and she was gone. When she was called back she spent 6 months sitting sideways on the 72 and was forced to upgrade to FO on the fokker 100. American allows you 6 months in your seat once someone junior to you upgrades then you have to. She went to class and made it all the way through to OE and got cut there. Now she was once a captain at Comair back in the day and flew single pilot night cargo before that. To make a long story short I don't really think it was fair to make her upgrade after not being at the controls for a few years. On top of that I'm sure alot of people on here making some of these comments are younger. Well in 20 years when you decide to switch aircraft and go back to class, I'd bet you'll have a harder time. Why do you think the older guys don't switch? Ya maybe schedules but no one ever wants to go back to class. Age does catch up with you and thats what happened to this fo. Never once was I worried about her in the right seat and she understood that she might not have the capability to sit in the left seat anymore.....she passed up captain upgrade on more than one occasion at skyway. Just my thoughts, not trying to prove someone wrong.

That's not Up-or-Out.

That's Up-Fail-get another chance at some point down the road, after the dust has settled.

In my case, Up-or-Out meant exactly that. I failed the training event, and the policy is clearly written out in SP-315... you're fired if it's an upgrade.

However, FO transistion to another airframe, or CA transistion.... No problemo.... you go back to your previous equipment, and even get another shot at it, IF YOU so desire. Not for an upgrade.

FO's at Southwest are flying the exact same equipment that they'll upgrade on. So, there's really two parts to the equation. Being successful as a captain, and checking out on the equipment.

Clearly, checking out on the B737 (or any plane) should be a no brainer, if you've been an FO on it (although, I'm confident there are failures). I attempted to checkout in a plane (actually, a whole type; turboprop) that I had never flown, and failed.

I never really got to the "captain" part of training, never flew the plane. Personally, I still think I would do quite well at it, and certainly I think I could have easily flown the CRJ from the left seat. But, I thought it would be "fun" to fly the EMB. It wasn't.

So, I have a PRIA entry, fired from a part 121 airline and pretty much black listed from getting a job at any US airline. With almost 4000 hours, I couldn't get an interview at CRJ operators that have been hiring (and I was still 90 day current in the CRJ until Oct 1, 2008).

Heck, try and get a job anywhere in this economy doing anything after you tell them you just got fired from your last (to them, "big time") job. I got a bill from SkyWest for $5 for shipping some documents.... with a threat for collection if I didn't pay on the very first bill. Treated like I imagine they might treat somebody who had been fired for stealing something, or drunk flying, or beating up flight attendants, or talking trash about the company.

I haven’t posted here in a long time, I’ve been reading but I’m sick of the animosity toward one another these threads can create so I took a little time off. I’ve also spent my time reading and pushing “Flying the Line” volume one and two on every pilot I’ve come across. I’m not pushing ALPA, just telling others that they need to understand where we came from and the sacrifices of others to gain what we now take for granted. FTL is a great history book written by a none-ALPA history professor. It’s amazing how much of the BS that occurred back in the day, when unions where weak and most were not unionized, actually goes on here. Yes SKW is a good (arguably great) regional but it’s still an airline with an Mgmnt group. Back in the day many airlines ended up on strike for reasons very similar to those that have lead to the termination of several pilots here at SKW. Now don’t get me wrong, it’s not often when a pilot is let go here but when it does happen there’s no one to back them up………….NO ONE.

As for the policy, it’s not like you fail an oral and you’re out, you need to fail three major portions usually multiple times (they just have to add up to three), basically it’s a three strike rule. Hell My Sim partner wasn’t good at NDB approaches, after the FAF he ended up almost 30 degrees off course and doing almost 2000 FPM, he passed because he recovered and made an excellent call going around. The second time it was a bit better but still a bust. He did not fail because of his attitude and judgment. Now I’m not going to tell you exactly what happen with TW but he did fail multiple portions. In Tony’s defense they expect us to go from day one of ground to type (on the EMB) in less than 30 days, my class did it in 28. When you’ve never flown the old switch b1tch that’s fast. Especially when you get less than a week of Sims before your sim ride/type ride.

On the same note, we at SKW are “at-will” employees which means that SKW can do almost as they please. I do not feel our “up or out” police is just seeing that our careers are too fragile and since you’ve proven yourself to be a very competent FO you should be allowed to return to that position with a seatlock and at least one more opportunity. Dave Behncke would roll over in his grave if he saw what goes on here at SKW with absolutely no response from the pilot group. It truly baffles me why we turn a blind eye to the suffereng of the few for our own selfish gain. I can honestly say that, although I like SKW, I look forward to moving on to DAL, SWA, UPS, FedEx or Net jets one day for many many reasons, one being unionized job insurance and the ability to back my fellow pilot without the fear of losing my job.

I do, in the back of my mind, fear spending the rest of my career with an airline that doesn’t value their employee’s futures. Although they say they do, this “up or out” policy *(as well as many others) show otherwise. Our careers are fragile and when we lose our job for a BS reason, we either have to change careers or go overseas, which is exactly where TW (to my knowledge) is headed. Good luck TW.

BTW, ALPA has a history of defending pilots even if they (ALPA) feel they should have been terminated. That’s what you get with your measly 1.95%.

Forget all the political crap, at-will is far more dangerous than being unionization.

Ps. Forgive the rambling and mistakes, it’s late and I’m exhausted. I’m sure I’ll end up editing this posting tomorrow.

TW.... first let me say that I am sorry to hear of your predicament.... I was under the impression that SKW valued their employees a little more than what I just read.
I personally think that an "up or out" policy is horse manure. If a person chooses to remain an FO for personal reasons I think that is perfectly acceptable. This (to me at least) validates the need for some sort of representation for each pilot group. I hope no one else (although very unlikely to actually happen) ever has to go through this sort of situation.
B

Pay it in pennies!

There is no requirement that you must upgrade at SKW. If you wish to, you could fly for 20 years in the right seat. The requirement is that once you have bid for, been awarded, and started upgrade class, you must successfully complete the course or you are fired.

I think the policy should be abolished, but we all (or at least those that did our homework) accepted the job at SKW knowing that "up-or-out" was in place.

First, let me clarify that I wasn't forced to upgrade. I bid on it, and when the class date was offered, I accepted.

The policy is one shot at the training event. But, like JetJock had pointed out, you either have to fail something twice (written, FTD, sim, oral, practical, IOE, etc) or fail once on three individual things.

I did the latter. I failed the oral at noon Friday, and went in and failed the sim at 6am Saturday. They elected not to give me a second try at either, which in itself is a failure, and the third one for me.

By the way, I want to make it clear that the company did in fact follow the rule to the letter. That's exactly what is allowed.

So, I got a call the very next day after my training was stopped from the Training manager, and he simply said, "you failed three things in training, and I have to terminate your employment". I asked if I could reapply. No, I was banned for life. He didn't offer to let me quit either. Interestingly, the guy who fired me was never exposed to this rule. He hired on in 1981-ish, and the up-r-out rule came to SkW in 1989.

I gotta say, of course, that I made mistakes in training. That's legit. Could I have been "trained to succeed". Of course. Would it have made sense to send me back as an FO on the CRJ ? I'd say yes, but the current rules don't allow for that, unless you're in the good 'ole boy club, etc.

Way to man up TW. Good luck to you.

Being a 121 PIC should be a cake walk compared to what these guys have done. I'm not saying these aren't excellent guys with amazing experience, but something about that doesnt add up to me.

For me, the choice to bid a position that would double my salary was an easy one.

Tony: I am sorry things didn't work out better for you. As someone above said, it takes courage to admit what happened to you. I don't think you have, but please don't interpret this thread as a public "flogging" of you. I brought "up and out" policies up for meaningful discussion (which it has provided, so far).

FWIW, I think you should have been allowed to keep your F/O job, and attempt an upgrade at somepoint in the future, especially on the CRJ. Good luck to you.

"Way to man up TW. Good luck to you."

I'd have a hard time saying that seeing as how Tony was a SAPA rep and was rabidly anti-ALPA during his time as a Skywest crewmember. The very organization/contract he fought against could have saved his career at Skywest. Now, he's got a job in Yemen and he's looking here at APC for advice on checklists. You reap what you sow....

For the record. I think up or out is dumb. Anyone who fails training should get to go back to his last seat for a time. Unions help negotiate these sort of things.

For being non bias that's a little hard. A union can only follow the contract. Saying "The very organization/contract he fought against could have saved his career" isn't accurate if "Up an out" is part of the contract.

However as someone that's not a moderator I'd like to ask.... If you could do it all over again would you fight the joining of a union?

I can't believe you're a mod, I don't post here much anymore, but I thought the mods held themselves to higher standards than us lowly RJ pilots. Don't kick a man when he's down. I'm fairly certain that cruel irony hasn't been lost on him, and being the guy in the background yelling, "I told you so!" is never cool.

Interesting side note, I'm a SkyWest pilot, and I can't stand this policy, HOWEVER, I would say a far greater number of pilots than I would've thought at SkyWest support this policy. That's especially true of our pilots that are in the left seat already. Sad but true.

Ya, I probably wouldn't expect much more from him, now, or in the future. No class.

I think it was already stated... whatever labor representation that we (ok, them!) have, if the collective bargaining labor contract says you're canned after failing an upgrade training event, guess what? You're still canned.



The grossly unscientific poll I saw on the SAPA forum was that 25% supported Up-n-Out. I suspect that out of that 25%, virtually all were captains who "already got their's". So, since the current SAPA board is 95% captains, I wouldn't think it would change. And the same would be true if it was a labor union, as I suspect the same thinking would prevail.

The policy is very clear, and well known at SkW. It adds a whole dimension of pressure that truly has to be lived to understand, which in part, I think, is why so many who have successfully upgraded, feel a bit smug about it.

In hindsight, of course, I would have been happy to stay in the jet. They canceled the new hire class, and had planned to walk in Monday morning to our upgrade class and cancel it, too. But they didn't. To my knowledge, that was the last class SkW ran.

I think SkyWest needs a union. When I ran for SAPA rep in SLC, I put it in my bio that I supported a union, since the former SAPA president, Mark, had just made a revelation (in court) that he supported ALPA. I also disclosed my role as a union rep when I was an air traffic controller.

I don't, however, and still don't think ALPA is the right tool for the job, which I also included in my bio then. My list of reasons are long, and well documented on this forum, so I won't repeat it here. With almost 3000 pilots, there is no reason that an in house union like SWAPA, APA, or USAPA (ok, maybe not the best example) couldn't flourish.

But, again, a union or no union doesn't by itself change any policy.

When I was contemplating bidding CA on the EMB, everybody in general seemed to think that was a good idea. Idle small talk, many had been in the EMB before the CRJ, said it was fun (for a while).

Then, after I accepted the bid, I seemed to regularly bump into people that would question, "you're going from FO CRJ to CA EMB ?"

When I said yes, almost universally, they would say, "you're gunna have your hands full".

I think JetJock said they had 28 total days, and he thought that was fast. I did 26 days from first day of class to failed sim ride.

I completed my fifth sim session (which started at 4am each day), and everything went pretty good. Not perfect by any measure, but I felt pretty good. The instructor signed me off, but wouldn't sign off my sim partner. I went right into the oral from that sim ride. When I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel (I was scheduled to actually fly the plane in three days), it all went down hill fast.

Actually, it was amazing how fast I went from hero to zero.

Oral started like this:

1. How long is the temporary airman certificate good for? I said 90 days, answer 120 (I think a temp aircraft registration is 90) WRONG

2. If you lost the temp certificate, what do you need from the company? I said some kind of letter or copy of certificate. WRONG, illegal to copy temp certificate, need exemption 5585.

3. If you flew 8 hours, what is normal rest? I said 9. WRONG. It's 10, 'cuz the rule is less than OR EQUAL TO 8 hours equals 10. 9 hour rest is for LESS THAN 8 hours.

4. What does the F stand for in ALSF-2 and the R in MALSR? I had no frigging idea. WRONG (flashing and runway)

5. When you get to DH on the ILS, and see the approach lights, how low can you descend? Me, "100 AGL". Ok, you see the red terminating bar, how low? I said continue the descent (word for word out of the reg). He says no, it's 50 feet (basically the landing threshold crossing height) until you see the runway lights/markings (except centerline lights).
Not sure I still buy off on that. Surely, you can't land, but I've never seen any altitude restriction, nor is there a callout for that, or training on that.

Anyway, the oral didn't go much further and he stopped it. I basically didn't get anything right. It kind ****ed me off, too, 'cuz we never really even talked about the f-ing airplane that I just spent the last 3 weeks learning.

I was so wound up, I couldn't get on my motorcycle to ride back to the hotel for about 3 hours. My sim partner, who didn't get signed off for the sim check ride, did his oral after me. He didn't get much of an oral at all. He said he just asked him a couple questions, and was on the phone the rest of the time rescheduling stuff.

I didn't sleep that night at all; I went over every memory thing I could think of that he would ask in the sim (it would be the same examiner that just failed me on the sim). At 6am, sure enough, right off the bat, he asked how to check the parking brake light. I had no idea. I looked after the fact, and could not find any place in any of the manuals that tells you it's push to test. (by the way, it says right on the lens "push to test"... one of those things that familiarity with the plane would have helped).

Anyway, I'll save y'all the gory details, but the sim ride was failed also. Strike two. Not signed off for retake, strike three.

Of the ten folks who signed up for the class, one didn't show (were told he got a job in Citation), one failed the written, passed on retake, and quit. Presumably, he thought he wouldn't complete training, and by quitting prior to FTD/Sim, it doesn't show up as a PRIA. He could actually just reapply, and get hired back on at SkyWest or anywhere... a wise move. And, of course, I failed.

My sim partner called and said he passed, and was on IOE.

That is kinda screwed up. You go into an oral expecting aircraft questions. If they started with regs I would get thrown for a loop too. Kinda throws you off balance.

That is exceedingly weak of the guy or the company policy. I don't know any details about what happened here in your instance but the only time our company has not allowed folks to resign was a couple of times when safety was deliberately compromised or there was malicious intent on the part of a pilot.

Just screwing up or being lazy or even a bit stupid allowed a chance at resignation.

Good luck in the future. There will be further chances. The job market sucks at the moment but when the feeding frenzy begins again you'll get another chance.

Tony...... sorry to hear of your misfortune. As for the moderators comments, TOTALLY out of line.... he probably kicks cats for fun as well.

Just wanted to clarify my position from above. Your was a training issue, and certainly should have been allowed back to the right seat for some determined amount of time before upgrading again. My personal grief is with those FO's who either NEVER attempt an upgrade or if they do and have problems ...NEVER attempt an upgrade again. The example I used above is a person who has been with the company nearly 9 years and has failed upgrade once several years ago, and is afraid of upgrading at this point.

I will admit coming from a military flying background ( 80's and early 90's ) that when I went through UPT you had the constant pressure of passing each and every training event daily. A couple of unsat rides found you on the verge of elimination. And of course once I was out in the squadron you were EXPECTED to be ready for upgrade to the left seat at 800 hours in the airframe and about 1000 hours total time ( about two years back then ). If you werent ready you would get a LONG hard look. So I certainly can relate to the pressures you must have felt in training.

What was done to Tony is wrong, termination after a problematic upgrade, with no recourse. I still think all FO's should have to upgrade at some point... but that really is a slightly different animal.

Good Luck TW.

The fact remains. If ALPA was at Skywest, it's likely the up or out policy would have been changed and TonyW would still work there. He was rabidly anti-ALPA on this site during the vote. Now he's going to make 7K a year in the right seat of an RJ. What's to feel sorry for?

"The grossly unscientific poll I saw on the SAPA forum was that 25% supported Up-n-Out. I suspect that out of that 25%, virtually all were captains who "already got their's"

Sounds like the other 75% would like to see it changed. What other ALPA airlines have an up or out policy? I think AA does but they aren't ALPA. Personally, I think it's a dumb policy. We have lifer F/O's at UPS. Some do it for the lifestyle and some just can't make the upgrade. Either way, it should be no big deal to stay as an F/O.

To clarify...

The SKW policy is not up-or-out. Nobody ever has to upgrade, and I know a guy who just retired out of the right seat.

The SKW policy is that if you attempt upgrade (always voluntarily), and fail three events, you are out. My understanding is that there is some flexibility on the three events, and that a good attitude will usually buy you some leeway.

Personally I don't agree with up-or-out, or the SKW policy. There are a variety of folks in the airline business with a variety of backgrounds... businessmen, retired senior military officers, etc.

Some folks have so much going on in their lives that they may not have the time to deal with upgrade, don't need the money, and cannot afford to wast time commuting to reserve in another domicile. I know a former aircraft carrier commander and a former submarine commander, neither of whom ever intend to upgrade. A retired O-6 collects more money sitting at home than most regional CA's make by going to work...and nobody can really question THEIR "commandability" :rolleyes:

Also some older folks may have legit concerns about their ability to learn new tricks...especially if it's on a different airplane. Anyone with any significant CFI time knows that old folks almost invariably have a harder time learning and multi-tasking.

It's not like majors or the better regionals EVER have a shortage of those willing to upgrade. If that were a problem, then the companies would be justified in implementing an up-or-out policy...but it's simply not necessary.

Even if up-or-out WERE necessary, there is no reason whatsoever to fire someone who fails the first time...ANYBODY can have a bad day. Or family/spouse problems, personality clash, or possibly just an examiner who is out to get you for whatever reason.

The concept of "every FO should have to upgrade" is a falacy, especially coming from military guys. In the military, we have up-or-out, and yes it is very necessary to develop our furure leaders. I am a product of that system and won't argue with it. But the airlines are not about public service or character development...everyone is there to make money (including pilots).

There is no reason that a few FO's can't remain FO's if it suits them...if the airline gets short of captains, they can solve the problem like any staffing issue: Junior Assignment.

...per month.

I think it's $7K/month, not bad for an FO...as long as you don't have to move your family to sandland.

Although I may not agree with him on every point, I respect TW for his participation, and attempting to be part of the solution. It is ironic that a union (ANY union) probably would have put the kabosh on pass-or-out.

Im totally shocked.. I Didn't know that a company like Skywest could have such a policy. The upgrade training must be a really stressful environment knowing that if you screw up you are fired.. for life!! and basically with no opportunity to work for a good 121 Air carrier again EVER!....

TW I wish you the Best of lucks!

Oh yeah, I meant 7K per month. And TW doesn't seem to be complaining about the job too much.

And, no, I don't like cats, either...

"It is ironic that a union (ANY union) probably would have put the kabosh on pass-or-out."

Agreed. That was my point.

It's not quit THAT bad. I don't know what underlying issues were present in TW's situation, but very, very few folks actually fail upgrade and get fired (I suspect that outside issues unrelated to training were involved in this case).

Also TW attempted to upgrade into the EMB-120 without ever having flown the aircraft. This is a KNOWN risky evolution...it might be worth doing if you have a year or less with the company and want fast PIC time. If you fail and get fired you don't lose much seniority.

In a normal hiring environment, someone in this situation would have no trouble getting a job at another regional...everyone knows that "stuff happens", especially if your training record was good otherwise.

Sorry TW. That policy is jacked. I knew a girl that failed her Captain upgrade at Express I (Pinnacle). She did the "walk of shame" across the ramp as an F/O for about 6 months and then got hired at FedEx!!!! She wasn't so down after that. I hope you meet a similar fate. As for up or out....at UAL we have over age 60 guys in the right seat!!! Some guys first Captain seat is the 777. Why not? That is how it should be IMO. To each his own.

For accuracy sake he said $7k a month. Not a year. "What's to feel sorry for?" All I can say is wow. That's mighty big of you Mr. Moderator. How about a guy who's been working toward his career goals just had a very unfortunate thing happen? He might not have been pro-alpa but that doesn't mean he deserves what's happened. People are allowed their own opinions on matters and most of us are big enough to not try and rub their faces in it if it doesn't turn out the way they would have liked. There's nothing that says ALPA could have stopped this. It's possible and probable but to jump in and verbally slap a guy around is complete BS especially from a guy who's at a company that in fact has an in-house union.

If you're going to continue to bash people on a regular basis then you need to hang up your senior role here. You're suppose to be impartial and at least appreciative of the situations others are in.

Mine as well.

Why does everyone bash the CRJ/ERJ pilots on the ' Jet vs Prop ' technicalities, then turn right around and be understanding of a prop driver failing a transistion to jet cause it's ' hard ' ? Double standard ?

My initial and upgrade oral involved a lot of FAR/General Ops questions followed by systems questions about the airplane. 2 hours worth both times.