[quote=TonyWilliams;485243]

Oral started like this:

1. How long is the temporary airman certificate good for? I said 90 days, answer 120 (I think a temp aircraft registration is 90) WRONG

2. If you lost the temp certificate, what do you need from the company? I said some kind of letter or copy of certificate. WRONG, illegal to copy temp certificate, need exemption 5585.

3. If you flew 8 hours, what is normal rest? I said 9. WRONG. It's 10, 'cuz the rule is less than OR EQUAL TO 8 hours equals 10. 9 hour rest is for LESS THAN 8 hours.

4. What does the F stand for in ALSF-2 and the R in MALSR? I had no frigging idea. WRONG (flashing and runway)

5. When you get to DH on the ILS, and see the approach lights, how low can you descend? Me, "100 AGL". Ok, you see the red terminating bar, how low? I said continue the descent (word for word out of the reg). He says no, it's 50 feet (basically the landing threshold crossing height) until you see the runway lights/markings (except centerline lights).
Not sure I still buy off on that. Surely, you can't land, but I've never seen any altitude restriction, nor is there a callout for that, or training on that.


I fail to understand how the ability to recite answers to obscure questions like a trained ape will guarantee the ability to be a successful pilot/captain. If a person is an unsafe/arrogant jackass or just plain can't do the job, then that is a different story. The way I see it, the point of the above exercise is just to boost someone's ego (at the expense of someone else). In the ATC world, most veteran controllers that I know of would just tell this pompous examiner to "go pi$$ up a rope." Does this mean that they are less safe or competent?! Don't get me wrong, as ATC certainly has its share of pr!cks and the training could last a long time (especially at the busier facilities), but the process was normally when the trainee acquired a certain number of hours and his/her trainers thought that they were ready the supervisor gave them a checkride (which was usually just a formality). And I don't think that the system is any less safe as a result. However, when a person is so uptight because they are afraid to make a mistake (e.g. in these part 121 checkrides), then in my opinion they are less effective and safety is degraded as a result.

One interesting question that has not been mentioned with respect to up or out is medical certification. Some pilots are able to hold a second class FAA medical, but not a first class. Would those airlines with a forced upgrade such as AA terminate this pilot? If so, would the pilot have any recourse under the Americans with Disabilities Act?

Joe

Of course not. Any US airline would allow someone who can only hold a second class to remain an FO. They would lose their butt on THAT lawsuit...

Actually, TW was an RJ guy upgrading/transitioning to the prop.

Sigh.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone to keep the conversation on track. This is an interesting topic and one that needs to be discussed, BUT please do so without personal attacks or inflammatory statements. Trust me, it can be done. I decline to delete any offensive posts nor give out infractions for now; however, I can easily change my mind after I've had some lunch. In the meantime, keep your nose clean or I'm going to wipe it for you with sandpaper.

To me, sounds like a bunch of the examiners questions were BS. There is stuff that you have to know, and there is stuff that you should look up versus relying on your memory.
As an example, think of the various MEL situations we have all encountered, that is something I take the time to look up in the manual even if I've had that exact same MEL item in the recent past.

What the F stands for-give me a FB? Exact hours of rest in a given situation, that's why they write the rules down for me to take 10 minutes out of my legal rest period and look it up. How low can you go-that one you've got to know. 50' could maybe, maybe, be a min for a Cat III (Cat I Red Terminating bars should be able to continue down and land provided the rwy environment remains in sight)

Still, have to bust you on the whole judgement thing.
Here's a guy who hooks you on the Oral scheduled to give you a sim first thing in the morning, might be a two day food poisoning for me if I'd been in that situation. Absolutely no way I would subject myself to an examiner who's judgment is questionable.
Definitely no way I would put myself in that situation with no sleep. Wouldn't hop in the jet fatigued, why would I do it in the sim.

Absolutely no way of knowing how ALPA would have changed the environment, so as Joey would say, that point is Mooo.
One of the bros did bust his oral in a similar situation (w/ ALPA as the union), right seat jurassic jet to Capt of a glass cockpit....and in his case, the result was a couple of days off followed by a do-over of the Oral. And his examiner was asking some off the wall questions as well....so, the examiner also wound up with some additional training and attitude adjustment.

When did you become a mod? How come I'm not a mod? (that'll be the day...) :D

They both have their hard issues. I don't know about the EMB-120, but I did fly the SAAB2000 for a few years in Europe. Now I fly the CRJ-200. The CRJ-200 is a harder airplane to fly.

Quote:

1. How long is the temporary airman certificate good for? I said 90 days, answer 120 (I think a temp aircraft registration is 90) WRONG

2. If you lost the temp certificate, what do you need from the company? I said some kind of letter or copy of certificate. WRONG, illegal to copy temp certificate, need exemption 5585.

3. If you flew 8 hours, what is normal rest? I said 9. WRONG. It's 10, 'cuz the rule is less than OR EQUAL TO 8 hours equals 10. 9 hour rest is for LESS THAN 8 hours.

4. What does the F stand for in ALSF-2 and the R in MALSR? I had no frigging idea. WRONG (flashing and runway)

5. When you get to DH on the ILS, and see the approach lights, how low can you descend? Me, "100 AGL". Ok, you see the red terminating bar, how low? I said continue the descent (word for word out of the reg). He says no, it's 50 feet (basically the landing threshold crossing height) until you see the runway lights/markings (except centerline lights).
Not sure I still buy off on that. Surely, you can't land, but I've never seen any altitude restriction, nor is there a callout for that, or training on that.

.....

I didn't sleep that night at all; I went over every memory thing I could think of that he would ask in the sim (it would be the same examiner that just failed me on the sim). At 6am, sure enough, right off the bat, he asked how to check the parking brake light. I had no idea. I looked after the fact, and could not find any place in any of the manuals that tells you it's push to test. (by the way, it says right on the lens "push to test"... one of those things that familiarity with the plane would have helped).End Quote



Since when are we airmen required to memorize everything?? Certainly questions 1 and 2 were fair game as you would have gotten a temp certificate. Questions 1, 2, and 4, your correct answer should have been, "Just a moment, I'll look that up." followed by you pulling out the FAR/AIM, flipping to the page, and reading him the answer. No one is capable of memorizing EVERYTHING especially the minutiae: that is why we have printed manuals, FARs, OPS Spec, etc. Perhaps he was testing to see if you COULD find those things.

IMHO, #3 (rest requirements) is something that needs to be memorized: we deal with that every day. it is rediculas that 7:59:59 requires one hour less than 8:00:00, but that is how the law reads. ((If not memorized, tab page 121.471.))

#5 MUST be memorized: no time to look that up in the plane. If you don't "buy" (and based on what you quoted, you SHOULDN'T) what he said, then go to 91.175 (and any part of your ops spec aplicable) and look it up.

1, 2, 4, and 5 could get you violated (5 could ball up a plane).

As for the push-to-test question, not knowing could cause a delay or cancellation.



If you take this as butsing your chops, then I have come on too strongly. Sorry. I have sat on both sides of the table during a busted checkride, and know how it feels. But all those were valid questions.

Study hard, use your references, and GOOD LUCK NEXT TIME!!!

BTW, one more thing....

Based on the questions asked I am inclined to think that someone was out to get TW off property there. Those are not irrelevant questions in the grand scheme of things, but how many of us could have successfully answered them? Those are trivia questions, not really relevant to a type-rating.

I am not saying they are not things we should know, but maybe those are better left to a place like recurrent ground school and the like.