They're saying you have the upper hand because the management needs this TA more than the pilots do. That means the pilots have better leverage, even though this TA is a small issue in face of other problems, if management can come into agreement with their pilots it's going to add stability and some reassurance to investors. We're all hoping that you mesa guys can get something better or at least stand up for your profession. I admit I don't know much about the TA but the're saying it's worse than the current one minus the extra days off for reserve and a little more pay for less bid periods. Nothing else.

rickair7777 said;

"JO depends on clueless newbies to advance his agenda at every turn."

JO leaves nothing to chance. He clones us on a ranch in Nevada. At least once a quarter a new batch of willing dupes is thawed.

I have no direct knowledge of JO or his agenda, good or bad. I have heard Mesa and sometimes its pilot referred to as "bottom-feeders" or in other bilious terms. I remain curious why it seems that Mesa is singled out for extra venom when it engages in practices common to the industry. RAH is taking over B717/DC9 routes (Midwest Airlines) and preparing to compete on B717/DC9 routes (HAL) with similiar sized aircraft flown at lower rates of pay. I have not seen a similiar level of scorn for this company.

"Pay rates and days off are 100% MEANINGLESS without work rules and airtight language to enforce them."

The TA would improve pay by conversion to "block or better". Minimum days off would increase. "Junior assignments" would be replaced with "junior availability"; it would be up to the employee to determine if he or she is available.

"Sounds like you're OK with your little corner of MAG...so to heck with the jet guys, right? It's just as well that you can't vote."

Oh, I might say "to heck" with your opinion if I knew more about you and your motivation. I would not say that to my fellow MAG pilots. I have been up front about why I hope the TA is approved and I have acknowledged that my Mesa experience is different from some others. I encourage everyone to think about their decision carefully. Voting "no" because one is still angry about last year's cancelled vacations and junior assignments will not get back that lost time or prevent it from happening in the future.

The Dash Whisperer
"Vote early and vote often"

Let's see why you guys are referred to as bottom feeders:

Average Block
Lowest time off in the industry
Lowest pay rates in the industry
Junior Manning
Infamous stand up overnights on the airplane (understand that doesn't happen now)
Freedom A list
Pay For Training (Mesa Pilot Development)

I can't defend what RAH's management is doing any better than you can defend the management at Mesa for the flying being done. However they should not be rewarded for their stupidity (China, GO!) etc. JO has been quoted as saying that as long as pilots show up to training he's paying too much. How much would his quality of life go down if they took a few million out of his payroll and spread it around to the other employees?

To say that a no vote wouldn't protect those items from happening in the future is pure ignorance. You have a chance to drastically improve the working conditions there by voting no for a contract that doesn't even compete with most other regionals out there with pilots working on years-old CBAs. Your negotiating committee has the opportunity to get specific language that prevents those items you brought up from happening again and your pilot group has a chance to let management know that they aren't going to put up with it any more.

Consider this: If mesa was such a great company to work for they would not have lost 700+ pilots last year and there's no way you would have gotten a direct entry captain position because there would be more than enough pilots there meeting the requirements to be a captain.

Always excuses.. the last time it was Freedom, this time it's bankruptcy, what will be the excuse next time?

Pilotpip said; "Let's see why you guys are referred to as bottom feeders:"

"Average Block" New TA will be block or better.

"Lowest time off in the industry" TA is 11/11. The airline profiles on APC that have info on this were all 12/11. Does not mean that some other airlines are not lower.

"Lowest pay rates in the industry" Not true based on APC profiles.

"Junior Manning" Changed in the TA. Occurs at other airlines.

"Infamous stand up overnights on the airplane (understand that doesn't happen now)" Yeah, no longer happens, remove from your list.

"Freedom A list" Before my time, the Mesa MEC fought pitched battles to eliminate this non-union alter ego. They had to swallow some bitter pills at the bargaining table to get this done. Strategically, I think it was the right decision. MAG pilots would be in a much worse position today if the MEC had not held firm then.

"Pay For Training (Mesa Pilot Development)" This is a straw man. MPD is not the only way into the MAG hiring pool. It is an ab initio program similiar to affiliations that other regionals have had with colleges and large flight training facilities. MPD provides the training and experience pilots need to meet MAG hiring qualifications. Mesa pilots do not pay for their Mesa training. They are paid at the jet FO rate and are provided single-occupancy rooms.

"...they should not be rewarded for their stupidity (China, GO!) etc."

I am not sure they have been rewarded. Stock price is down and the cash reserves have evaporated. The company is in trouble. Who hurts the most when bad business decisions are made, the execs, the shareholders, or the laid-off employees?

"JO has been quoted as saying that as long as pilots show up to training he's paying too much. How much would his quality of life go down if they took a few million out of his payroll and spread it around to the other employees?"

Another CEO making an outrageous, anti-employee statement. Despite facing this attitude at the bargaining table, our MEC has delivered a TA that insures pay parity with other carriers. I have no idea what JO makes as compared to other airline executives so I cannot answer your question.

"To say that a no vote wouldn't protect those items from happening in the future is pure ignorance. You have a chance to drastically improve the working conditions there by voting no for a contract that doesn't even compete with most other regionals out there with pilots working on years-old CBAs. Your negotiating committee has the opportunity to get specific language that prevents those items you brought up from happening again and your pilot group has a chance to let management know that they aren't going to put up with it any more."

I feel that the TA does address important issues and improves working conditions. It contains pay and time off improvements that are decent considering the state of the industry.

"Consider this: If mesa was such a great company to work for they would not have lost 700+ pilots last year and there's no way you would have gotten a direct entry captain position because there would be more than enough pilots there meeting the requirements to be a captain"

Mesa has had trouble keeping pilots. Many left last year because Mesa is not the best place to work and many left because the majors were doing a lot of hiring. I was not a direct entry captain. I chose Mesa over a "good regional" because I wanted my seniority to improve quickly, the Dash bases are reasonable commutes to my home, and for the possibility of a quick upgrade.

The Dash Whisperer

That's some good koolaid Dash, as it's been said, good thing you can't vote.

You are the lowest paid in the industry. Perhaps not the lowest hourly pay rate, but when you consider how many hours credit that average block costs you...

Oh, and how many days can they take away from you through J/M? What happens next time staffing is bad and they start taking away vacation? I haven't heard anything about minimum staffing levels to prevent that.

PBS is great when the pilots have control of it. The problem is you won't. PBS wouldn't give you guys anything with management in control.

The worst part about this TA is that even without seeing the pay rates themselves, the QOL improvements bring Mesa on par with some (not all) other carriers at best. Which means that the next round of contracts will put them back on the bottom as everybody else gets better.

I don't know why I'm arguing with you. Of the mesa pilots on here you seem to be saying yes. Thankfully, you can't vote.

Oh, and while you've moved up fast, you might as well get comfy. What airlines are hiring right now and will be any time in the next 5 years?

The DashRocks,

With respect I have to disagree with your opinion. You are saying that this contract will be better than the exisiting, but for who and how?

Line guarantee, is no doubt a good thing about this contract that will affect all pilots. However there is no guarantee that the company will create lines more than minimum guarantee. Therefore this does not constitute a pay increase.

Cancellation pay, along with line guarantee, is the second of only two definitive pluses for this contract. It will affect all pilots positively.

Block or better per ALPA's own comments will affect pilots in ORD and JFK more than other bases and may constitute up to 20% raise for those domiciles. What about the people in other domiciles. Don't those pilots also deserve a pay raise and don't they work equally as hard as those in ORD and JFK?

FO's get a 2% or so pay rise in 2010, don't captains deserve a pay raise too?

Then again look at inflation, is 2% really a pay raise? Arguably no.

We lose our current 150% premium pay for JA. You are correct the JA rules changed. They changed for the worse. Under the new contract I don't ever expect to have the company pay the 200% JA pay. Let's face it the only time we got JA'd as when there was insufficient reserve coverage. Oh look, when there is insufficient reserve coverage it now becomes a legal JA. No need to pay 200%. What about the Harris Award. Any monkeying with our schedules at any time required JA pay. Did we just give this away?

Pro rated days off table. Under old system if I had 7 days vacation I could still have at least 9 days off (28 day bid). Now I only get 9 days (31 day bid) or 8 days (30 day bid) off. Why should vacation cut into your days off? I heard ALPA say it is to do with PBS but surely you could just load each week of vacation as 21 hours (or 3 hours per day) into PBS and still keep the 11 day off and reduce our number of hours PBS tries to assign by the number of hours we were on vacation

QOL is a wash and is not improved under the new contract. For it to improve I need to be able to trade partial pairings to make my line commutable on the front and back of my trip. This new contract makes no binding regulations to permit me to do this. I need to have a guarantee that open time will remain available to line holders for a period of time after the SAP to permit me to make a trip commutable. How will QOL be improved for anybody under this contract especially considering the way pairigns are constructed is unchanged?

The bottom line. This contract only increases pay for a portion of the pilots and will not improve quality of life for most.

I too could have gone to a better regional but chose Mesa like you for the quick upgrade in order to get my PIC then move on. However as you know the days of the quick upgrade are gone. How will you feel about working under this TA for another 5 or more years?

Ignore all the Mesa bankruptcy stuff. It is irrelevant. What is relevant is what are we worth? What responsibility do we have? What should we be getting paid? How much rest and time off should we get given our responsibilities and our time away from home?

Lets fight for what we are worth now not what we may be worth in two years. Lets fight for everyone in the pilot group not just a select few. Lets fight for what we need if we were all to be here in 10 years time.

The language in this contract is just not good enough. It could have been written better by a 15 year old. I'd be embarassed to show anybody this TA and call it a contract.

It is just not good enough and we deserve better not only for us but for the people that come after us.

Stand up and vote no. Vote for what is right. Please don't be selfish. Your vote will affect every pilot at Mesa now and in the future.

What is the worst that can happen if we vote no? We stay with the current contract for a bit longer. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

Vote no, please.

Dash man you have enough brain to put together this well thought out rebuttal. (that's a compliment seriously) Many items I would have stated myself. Many others have their secret "anger" agendas towards MAG & it's pilots. (it's easy to pick them out) For whatever reason it maybe jealousy over quick upgrades, career progression or lack thereof, lost jobs etc. You see it's easy to pick on the guy who doesn't strike back. And MAG guys don't very often on this forum. (for various reasons) Now is the chance for you guys to obtain a respectable contract, so that the next time some "blowhard" comes on here complaining about xxxxx You can tell e'm to pi$$ off and check their info. So my agenda, I just wanna see my buds improve their livelihood. Just do yourself a favor talk with the guys in the crewroom and gain their perspective. And don't limit it to 1 type A/C seniority or rank talk with e'm all and especially don't limit it to what alpo has to say. For whatever reason they seem to like selling us down the river.

Agreed.

Dash, I really want to see you guys get a much better contract. It would be a win for you, and really a win for all of us. There's no reason you guys should be putting up with the BS you put up with. This TA has way too many holes in it and doesn't come close to addressing the QOL issues you guys have compared to other companies.

Mesa going under would probably mean me getting my job back in short order. I don't want to see you guys on the street any more than I want to be on the street. To wish that on somebody is beyond stupid. However the undercutting has to stop somewhere. Quick upgrades don't do anything for anybody if there isn't anywhere better to go.