The reason I put 5 years is because of the length of time of negotaitions which generally take more than 1 year but more likely 3 or more and can be delayed by the company if it benefits them for as long as the RLA permits (which I'm not familiar with). I think if you vote yes on this contract (speaking generally as you said you couldn't vote) then you should be prepared to work under the TA for up to 5 years at the outset. This is why I see yearly cost of living scheduled increases as mandatory. Even our last contract had yearly increases for at least 3 years (don't remember the exact number and my old contract is in my flight bag).


That implies that getting an extra $3/per hour will cause furloughs or worse. I believe the furloughs are caused by us not satisfying our customers and meeting their expectations so they cut our flying to minimize their risk. Perhaps paying more to the pilots and giving us an industry leading or even standard contract with good time off and flecibility will improve our attrition rate, our morale (sp?) and perhaps more pilots would actually care enough to help the company out of a bind if that 'bind' was on a rare occasion. Then perhaps furloughs would go down because we would win more flying? I'd much rather get paid $3.00 more per hour and get furloughed than get paid less and still get furloughed. Do you see my point? Our compensation is so lean that I don't believe it makes a difference to our solvency or our furloughing.

Where is the language in the contract that says a pilot may deny JA's? The company was recording all JA's that you denied as UFW (Unavailable For Work). Then I believe they could use the total number of UFW's to threaten you with disciplinary action. There is nothing in the TA that prevents them doing the same again.

I think we both have a fundamental difference in how we are interpreting the reassignment language. For this reaon alone the language is obviously not clear enough. What I read is that they CAN reassign you outside of your footprint (thus impinging on your time off) IF they do not have any ready reserves OR the flight is going to be late. I don't see any language that states if you lose time off you get extra dough. Am I missing something? It would be great if the language did state if you lose time off, you get extra dough but I don't see where it is.

DashRocks I really appreciate the discussion it is much more constructive than all the flaming and 'JUST VOTE NO' statements. I must say you surprised me when you mentioned talking to your FO implying you were a Captain. I was sure all captains had been at Mesa for at least 1 year as I don't think we hired street guys. That must have been a super quick upgrade. Good for you. I was hoping for a quick upgrade too but that is by the wayside now.

Hey at least with the new email regarding furlough's and reorganization I won't be joining you on the Dash until AFTER Christmas.

Darn, you got me!;)

Interesting thread. As we get ready to head into our own contract negotiations, I throw out a few points for consideration.

1) You have to get an approximately 3% pay RAISE each year just to keep your buying power the same. This TA is a pay CUT for all pilots at MAG.

2) We (labor) are headed into a much more labor friendly Administration, and by extension, NMB. The tables are finally turning.

3) What are your pilot labor costs as a percentage of overall costs at MAG? 6%? A decent raise will NOT be responsible for the failure of your company should it eventually come to that.

4) Looks like some good progress has been made for QOL issues. Beware of PBS. We got it here at United and without specific pilot controls, it can be a huge detriment.

5) It's time that WE (the collective WE, as a profession) took back some of what has been stolen from us these last 7 years. It's been a horrific run, and we have been forced to "negotiate" under some of the worst imaginable labor conditions. I'm a firm believer that we ALL bear the responsibility of returning at least some professional pride to our sorely battered profession. I know that in my case (UAL), it's time for a substantial improvement in pay and QOL. If that is not forthcoming in our next TA, then I won't vote for it. If that means a strike is imminent, I will march in it, and if that means we fade from existence, I will walk away with my head held high (and NO, I'm not independently wealthy, I would be ruined financially). At some point we all need to say enough is enough, because without that line in the sand, managements around the country will just use all the old tricks (fear, Ch 11, whipsaw) to see just how cheap we can be. I've had enough. My time and QOL is worth much more than I am presently receiving. It is time for a change.

This is your chance, MAG. It's time to not just be content with "industry standard" anymore. It's time for all of us to raise the bar a little when we get our chance.

Looking forward to our Contract 2009. Good luck to you all

For those who haven't, pick up the phone and vote NO! You have until Wednesday AM (1000 AZ Time?)

A resounding no vote will send a clear message to OJ. A yes vote will send a message to the rest of the industry...

When do we find out that it didn't pass?

10am Est its closed

It's been 46 whole minutes. When do we find out?

TA passed...sucks 418 votes yes 400 no

818 Pilots voted (76% of the total eligible voters). 418 YES to 400 NO. It passed by 18 votes.

or another way to look at it if 10 people would have voted no instead it would have failed