AgonzAPC

I am about to get a BSME/AE and I am going to get all my rattings from a local FBO as I have been told its best to do it that way. When it comes to getting hired what exactly do I need? Should I pay a bit more and go to ATP or just take my time and do it at a FBO without getting into debt...


Alex

Punkpilot48

This is how I would weigh it:

Going to ATP the price is xxxxx youll only need about 600 hours or so and then they have connections to at least get you an interview and maybe you'll step right into an airline job.

Go to your FBO pay xxx/hr times about 300 or so. Get your CFI get a job. Or get a pipline job or something. If you already have a "time-building" job you know about you can make it go just as quick as going to ATP. Being a CFI however, depending on where you live, could take a little while seeing that students may not be flowing as you would hope.

Both routes have an advantage. The second route is deffinitly a more accepted route but if you don't mind being shuned down upon by some of the higher time guys its not bad. The second route also build up a little more self-confidence with decision making while in the air.

If it matters I chose the second.

ErikCFII

Go with the second, more traditional, route. I have 4 friends that went with the ATP program...only one is on with an airline now. The other 3 are stuck at ATP teaching cuz they can't get through an interview process. Granted they are going for the regionals with more stringent hiring procedures. They're knowledge is poor and they lack decision making. They did not have a good foundation back when it counted at the private pilot level. They were taught bad habits, bad procedures, and misinformation from CFIs who were taught the same. Now they pass them on to their students.

The one who is with an airline started out making $15/hr as a first year FO. Not much money when you're so far in debt. He could upgrade after about a year however he won't have ATP mins, let alone Captain mins. I don't know that I'd want to upgrade in a year anyways. I've got 2100 hours and I've done the 121 thing. I was able to see I'd like to FO for well over a year to accept CA resonsibilities.

I'll get called over to the ATP office by my friend so a few of the CFI's there can sit around and throw questions and scenarios at me for insight from someone with a little real world experience. They don't have anyone else to look to except checkride examiners. I sure hope they don't ask the examiners some of the things they ask me. There may be a few 709 rides in order.

I went through 121 training with a zero to hero, pay for CRJ training, type and he busted a sim session cause he couldn't hold. He almost failed his aircraft training 2 weeks later because ATC through him a curve ball on an ILS vector. Things are too standardized at those pay for training places.

I never knew what to think of pilot ticket factories until the last couple years. I am a firm believer in the traditional route for reasons that are too numerous to list.

Stay true to aviation. Stay traditional.

Free Flyer

Since it sounds like you are at a college getting your Aero & Mechanical engineering degree, I would highly suggest that if your college has an aviation program, at least take the private certificate through them. This will help give you a good foundation for training and give you a very structured format.

I only say this because when we did the hiring board at my former regional airline, it was very evident during the interviews/sim rides of those who did not have a structured upbringing with regards to aviation training. Those who just got ratings at an FBO would definately show their "bad habits" or lack of decision making and overall knowledge of aircraft systems. I can not impress upon you enough how much you need to have the overall package to make it in aviation. Airlines hire people who can understand systems, have good situational awareness, program an FMS, and fly. Basic stick and rudder skills are important, but at most airlines anymore, autopilots are on at 1000 ft AGL. I don't care if you are a Chuck Yeager, I care if you can handle the situation when the plane breaks at FL350. Overall knowledge is key.

Get the structured training and learn in my opinion in this order:

1. Aviation college
2. ATP or some other push em through aviation center
3. FBO

Take from this what you will, but I did the FBO thing for my private and instrument certificates. Then I went to college and was I ever behind the curveball compared to my classmates back when I was in school. It's never fun playing catchup.

And to finish this all, it's always a benefit to have gone to an approved aviation college. If you don't believe me, look up some major airline applications, and tell me why they have specific categories to input "associations" for having a degree from certain colleges. For example, CAL - Purdue, UPS - Purdue CEO, and the list goes on and on.

otter

I have friends that went to a "flight school", there $80,000 in dept. You wont make any money at a regional for the first two years. My friends pay something like $650.00 a month for student loans. That's 1/3 or more of there income. I went to a FBO where I have zero dept. I was a CFI, then got a job flying the canyon. Sure I fly a Otter, who cares! I would rather fly the otter for a year than be in dept for 10 to 15 years. Going to a FBO then getting a time building job has worked very well for me. It will be hard for my friends to even buy a home when there student loans are so much a month. As for learing to fly. I think you really learn to fly with your first flying job.

BURflyer

I'm going though an FBO, the planes are never available and the MAJOR problem at FBOs is that they bow down to money not the student. If some rich guy want's to rent 3 planes, guess what you as a student, are screwed. This happens all the time. Plus you get to know the mechanic really well at an FBO. At an academy you know you are flying safe planes that are available ONLY to students. Also the BIG thing about the academy is that it's structured. At an FBO it could take you half a year to get you ppl, your at the mercy of the schedule of the school and the instructor. On average you only pay an extra 10k going through an academy, in my opinion it's worth spending. I'm getting out this FBO as soon as I can. Oh, I forgot to mention that if you do go through an FBO make sure you get the youngest CFI that doesn't have many or no students at all. Don't go through an experienced instructor because they won't teach you anything special and they are less available.

AgonzAPC

Last time I went to one of the FBOs (KCPK) the CFI was ancious for me to train with him. Money? maybe!! The guy sure as hell was cool and I feel bad because I couldnt do my PPL with him as school (My Bachelors) got much bussier. I guess I have to keep on doing my homework to where to go and what to do. I still have 8 month before I get that precious BSME/AE diploma.


Alex

freezingflyboy

Sounds like you chose a bad FBO to do your training at. I have taught at both a small FBO and a large college aviation program so I have experience both ways. It really pays to do your homework and talk to a lot of people who already use the FBO or aviation program you are interested in.

At an FBO remember YOU are the customer. If you are not happy with the way you are treated there TELL THEM. Like you said, FBOs (and all businesses for that matter) care about money. They dont care whos pocket it comes out of. Most places will do what it takes to not lose you as a customer. If they don't, then you dont want to be there anyway. If they are cancelling your flights so someone else with more money can fly, that is just bad business. They charge you all the same rate so who cares whos flying the airplane!? The FBO makes the same either way. The only time we would move students on the schedule at my FBO was if another student needed to do a checkride and the examiners schedule conflicted with the aircraft availability. And even then, it was a call to student A to ASK if they would mind moving their flight so student B could do their checkride.

At a large aviation college or a "pilot factory" you are still the customer but your voice is a lot quieter. Depending on the size of the program and the time of year, aircraft availability can still be an issue. At the aviation college I worked for, we would have availability problems at times during the year even with a fleet of 60+ airplanes. It just doesn't make economic sense to buy a bunch of airplanes to fix a short-term availability problem just to have those planes sit the rest of the year. Its hard for student to understand, but it would actually increase their costs.

And as far as getting the youngest instructor with no students and staying away from the experienced ones... Not always a good policy. Usually the younger guy just wants to build time so he can go fly his shiny RJ so really doesn't care if he does a good job teaching you just so long as that time gets into his logbook. Besides that, the younger guy has fewer experience to pass down to you which just makes your training that much shallower. As with anything, it depends, but the older guys are usually a better bet.

I know this is probably rambling but hope it helps.

rickair7777

Another advantage to an FBO is that if things don't go they way you like for whatever reason, you can simply walk away.

At a big academy, since you are actually enrolled in a "training program" it will have to go on your resume and background check. If you decide you want to leave, the big places will normally coerce you (and more importantly your money) into staying by threatening a less-than-stellar response to future backround/reference checks.

supercell86

I am at an FBO. A part 141 school in the northeast. I won't mention names, but it is supposed to be one of the best FBO's around. In any case things are NOT going the way I like, and I am going to be walking away after I get my COMM SEL. (probably by this winter)

1. There are never planes available.
2. The planes are crappy. This is my second FBO, and the planes were crappy at my last one also.
3. The weather sux, many academys are in Flordia (just a small point)
4. There are about 5 instructors for about 500 students, in other words the student/intructor ratio SUX
5. We have ONE crappy frasca 131.
6. I also believe our A/C are very unsafe, and wonder sometimes if our mechanic really does have his lisence to do work on A/C.

Now at the academys, I am well aware of the cost. Believe me it is depressing to talk about the check I'll be giving one of them. But I DO NOT know what else to do. I want to go to a school that...

1.has SEVERAL airplanes.
2.MANY instructors,
3.well maintained A/C
4. Instructors that give a damn, in other words I don't ever wanna hear my intructor say to me...."So what are we doin today"
5. Lots of Structure
6. Vast amounts of CRM training and Emergency procedures.
7. SEVERAL simulators that were made after the early 1900's would be nice.
8. And to be able to fly as often as I want. If I wanna fly 1 hour per week or 9. hours per day I want that!
10. Better weather would be a plus also
11. A "Guarenteed Interview" is also a plus. I know NO ONE in this industry, and I am afraid I'll have a very tough time getting hired off the street.

If I can get all of this out of a academy I AM doing it. Can I?