Applying to Regionals
07-20-2005, 12:18 PM
#1
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Posts: n/a
Applying to Regionals
I am completely supportive of my husband's dream of a career in flight and I know that someday we'll get there - But I just need some reassurance that we're taking the right path.
Since the regionals dropped their minimums we're on the verge of applying (I actually submitted his resume and applied at ASA and Skywest this month). He's an Ivy-league college grad, licensed pilot for 10 years, currently a CFII for one year, He has 1100TT and 175 ME (the multi-engine includes about 100 SIC Challenger 601 sim time) I think this would make him a prime hire for Skywest or others with a CRJ fleet....am I dreaming? Why is it more important to have ME time in a Piper Apache than instrument time in a professional simulator of the plane you would be hired to fly?
He's not in this for the money and his goal is to fly corporate. Can anyone give us some good advice or direction?
Since the regionals dropped their minimums we're on the verge of applying (I actually submitted his resume and applied at ASA and Skywest this month). He's an Ivy-league college grad, licensed pilot for 10 years, currently a CFII for one year, He has 1100TT and 175 ME (the multi-engine includes about 100 SIC Challenger 601 sim time) I think this would make him a prime hire for Skywest or others with a CRJ fleet....am I dreaming? Why is it more important to have ME time in a Piper Apache than instrument time in a professional simulator of the plane you would be hired to fly?
He's not in this for the money and his goal is to fly corporate. Can anyone give us some good advice or direction?
07-20-2005, 12:47 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: DHC-6-300 EMB 120 CRJ
Posts: 275
First, I think it's great that you know so much about flying. I've meet lots of wifes who could not tell a Skyhawk and a 737 apart. I used to live about 30 miles south of SLC, and know alot of people who have interviewed at Skywest. Skywest will send people home from the interview if they have alot of spilt ME time. They want PIC ME time. I'm not sure how they will feel with 100 hours of SIC sim twin time. If I were you, I would load up a twin this weekend and go for a long vaction flight. Build that last 25 hours of flight time, then try for Skywest. I hope this helps, it would suck to come to SLC for a interview with a chance of being sent home early.
Last edited by otter; 07-20-2005 at 12:51 PM.
07-20-2005, 04:05 PM
#3
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Skywest
If he wants to fly corporate then he should avoid the regionals. Most corporate employers don't hold high regaurd for airline types. He should consider going to FlexJet or just try to get on with a local 135 outfit. The regionals would be a dead end.
07-20-2005, 04:25 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
I agree with the other guys. If he wants to go corporate, stay in the corporate environment. The airlines are a wonderful experience and he will build time quickly, but in corporate flying, much of the time it is who you know that matters. He needs to start picking up right seat trips anywhere he can and start networking. Before he knows it, he will be booked solid!
The SIC sim time is NOT the same as real plane time and no airline, not even a regional, is gonna care about it other than it being nice that he has some familiarity with the plane. It is a great experience, but I can tell you that although the sim feels real and some are pretty darn near real visually, there is no replacing being in the actual airplane. Maybe it is the psychologcial apect of knowing that you can crash the sim and not die.... whatever it is, there is just no duplicating real life situations in which you make split-second decisions that could kill you. That is what you train for in the sim, but you can't put it into practice until you actually get on the line and fly for real....
Anyway, if hubby does go the regional route, make sure YOU are armed with all the info on what life will be like (you seem resourceful). I fly for a regional and have been there for a long time. My quality of life has gotten worse over the years rather than better, and I even live where I am based. I could NEVER imagine commuting for the job. My family would kill me.
Good luck!
The SIC sim time is NOT the same as real plane time and no airline, not even a regional, is gonna care about it other than it being nice that he has some familiarity with the plane. It is a great experience, but I can tell you that although the sim feels real and some are pretty darn near real visually, there is no replacing being in the actual airplane. Maybe it is the psychologcial apect of knowing that you can crash the sim and not die.... whatever it is, there is just no duplicating real life situations in which you make split-second decisions that could kill you. That is what you train for in the sim, but you can't put it into practice until you actually get on the line and fly for real....
Anyway, if hubby does go the regional route, make sure YOU are armed with all the info on what life will be like (you seem resourceful). I fly for a regional and have been there for a long time. My quality of life has gotten worse over the years rather than better, and I even live where I am based. I could NEVER imagine commuting for the job. My family would kill me.
Good luck!
07-20-2005, 06:18 PM
#5
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Posts: n/a
Thank you!
Originally Posted by dhc8fo
I agree with the other guys. If he wants to go corporate, stay in the corporate environment. The airlines are a wonderful experience and he will build time quickly, but in corporate flying, much of the time it is who you know that matters. He needs to start picking up right seat trips anywhere he can and start networking. Before he knows it, he will be booked solid!
Anyway, if hubby does go the regional route, make sure YOU are armed with all the info on what life will be like (you seem resourceful). I fly for a regional and have been there for a long time. My quality of life has gotten worse over the years rather than better, and I even live where I am based. I could NEVER imagine commuting for the job. My family would kill me.
Good luck!
Anyway, if hubby does go the regional route, make sure YOU are armed with all the info on what life will be like (you seem resourceful). I fly for a regional and have been there for a long time. My quality of life has gotten worse over the years rather than better, and I even live where I am based. I could NEVER imagine commuting for the job. My family would kill me.
Good luck!
Ok, so..... our experience has been that the pilots he meets up with are stingy with the important info (like where to pick up right seat trips). He's a nice guy but no social butterfly - networking is not his best skill. Are there other ways to get "in" corporate?
As far as regional airlines go how do you mean your quality of life has gotten worse over the years? I can't imagine it being worse than being a CFII. My husband puts in 40-50 hours/week at the flight school where he gets paid next to nothing for a few flight hours. At the same time he volunteers at the right seat sim program (with the promise of a type rating in another 18 mos) and if he has any time left he pays to rent a crappy 50 year old plane to build ME time. Please tell me it gets better than this!
07-21-2005, 04:48 AM
#6
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Better times?
Sorry but they can get even worse. Imagine making the same money or even less and then your husband is gone most of the time. 50 hour work weeks would be nice for most regional airline pilots. It sounds like he is already on the best path. He really needs to boost his personality skills however. The world of corporate flying is totally personality driven. If the owner dose not like you you are gone regaurdless of your experience. I have seen owners bend over backwards for a low time pilot who was their drinking buddy and shun respected high time pilots because they were not liked.
07-21-2005, 05:18 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
Well....I guess it gets better in some ways and not in others. The nice thing about instructing is that you set your schedule. That is about it as far as I am concerned. Not too many people enjoy it, they just see it as a way to get to the next step in the food chain.
As far as my QOL getting worse...I used to fly corporate before the airlines. Had a set schedule, good pay, great aircraft, etc. There wasn't much outlook for advancement, and maybe like your husband, the grass looked greener on the airline side. Thought it would be cool to fly bigger and better.
It was exciting for the first year. New enviroment, new plane, new people, new type of flying. Then I realized that it is all the same, day after day, just like instructing was. Now the bad part is that I don't get to make my own schedule anymore, and since you will likely spend several years at the bottom at most regionals (not much movement upwards but it goes in cycles), that means lots of working holidays, missed functions with my kids, and odd days off when everyone is in school or at work.
Second, the airlines are an unstable beast by nature. Once you stay long enough to get a "line" and somewhat of a decent schedule, changes in management or the industry can send you right back to where you started, or worse, put you on the street (take 9/11 for example).
My company is constantly adding and deleting flying thereby growing and shrinking the size of our bases. What that means is that the poor guy at the bottom, who is finally living where he wants to live now and bought a house, is displaced to another base only to commute until a spot opens up in his chosen base agin. All of this for pretty crappy pay. Better than instructor pay, but not very good pay in general. When you get more senior, you worry about all of this less but it is always looming. That is just one example.
Once you have been somewhere for awhile and become a senior FO, life can be pretty good. However, the minute you take an upgrade opportunity, there you are at the bottom AGAIN! All the same worries and hassles. Sitting on reserve and away from home most of the year and used and abused by your schedulers.
Speaking of schedulers, and I don't want to get too deep because if you haven't been there it might not all make sense, you have to CONSTANTLY cover your ass with respect to the regs and the FAA. Schedulers are taught to wring every little hour they can outta you and then some. If you aren't careful, you will be breaking required rest periods and overflying yourself. Well intentioned, but illegal.
I missed corporate flying immensely once I got here. I had a good gig, but I think in general, it lends itself to a whole different lifestyle. Granted, there are plenty of crappy corporate jobs out there too, but there are so many to chose from that it gives you more of an ability to determine what your QOL will be (such as how often you will work or how many RONs you will encounter per month). Also, I can't say this for sure, but from my own experience corporate pays better.
As far as getting jobs goes, I don't know where you are and how populated it is, but exposure and go-getting is my suggestion. I met one guy who introduced to me another and so on and so on. If your hubby isn't too social, he will probably have a hard time doing this, so maybe he should invest some time into learning these type of skills in addition to his flying. I don't know how you LEARN to be social though. Certainly I would flood any corporate office (with aircraft) with my resume and make many followups.
Also, if you guys can afford it, I would ***** myself out for free. I think this is total BS, but it is a good way to pick up right seat flying and then develop relationships with whoever is in the left seat. This is how I got my corporate job.
Other than that, my only suggestion for getting into corporate flying is to meet the minimums with good quality flying. The sim thing isn't a dead-end thing by any means, but he needs more actual flying. In that year it would take him to get his type, he could have built up another 1000 hours and only 25 more multi hours will likely open the door. A type rating with no time in the aircraft will probably not help him as much as the 1000/100 will. You also have to keep in mind that insurance is often a corporate stumbling block.
OK, one more thing. Consider flying cargo. They seem to really be hiring right now and, like with corporate, you have more to pick from with respect to they type of flying you will do and when you will be doing it.
Hope all of that helps!
As far as my QOL getting worse...I used to fly corporate before the airlines. Had a set schedule, good pay, great aircraft, etc. There wasn't much outlook for advancement, and maybe like your husband, the grass looked greener on the airline side. Thought it would be cool to fly bigger and better.
It was exciting for the first year. New enviroment, new plane, new people, new type of flying. Then I realized that it is all the same, day after day, just like instructing was. Now the bad part is that I don't get to make my own schedule anymore, and since you will likely spend several years at the bottom at most regionals (not much movement upwards but it goes in cycles), that means lots of working holidays, missed functions with my kids, and odd days off when everyone is in school or at work.
Second, the airlines are an unstable beast by nature. Once you stay long enough to get a "line" and somewhat of a decent schedule, changes in management or the industry can send you right back to where you started, or worse, put you on the street (take 9/11 for example).
My company is constantly adding and deleting flying thereby growing and shrinking the size of our bases. What that means is that the poor guy at the bottom, who is finally living where he wants to live now and bought a house, is displaced to another base only to commute until a spot opens up in his chosen base agin. All of this for pretty crappy pay. Better than instructor pay, but not very good pay in general. When you get more senior, you worry about all of this less but it is always looming. That is just one example.
Once you have been somewhere for awhile and become a senior FO, life can be pretty good. However, the minute you take an upgrade opportunity, there you are at the bottom AGAIN! All the same worries and hassles. Sitting on reserve and away from home most of the year and used and abused by your schedulers.
Speaking of schedulers, and I don't want to get too deep because if you haven't been there it might not all make sense, you have to CONSTANTLY cover your ass with respect to the regs and the FAA. Schedulers are taught to wring every little hour they can outta you and then some. If you aren't careful, you will be breaking required rest periods and overflying yourself. Well intentioned, but illegal.
I missed corporate flying immensely once I got here. I had a good gig, but I think in general, it lends itself to a whole different lifestyle. Granted, there are plenty of crappy corporate jobs out there too, but there are so many to chose from that it gives you more of an ability to determine what your QOL will be (such as how often you will work or how many RONs you will encounter per month). Also, I can't say this for sure, but from my own experience corporate pays better.
As far as getting jobs goes, I don't know where you are and how populated it is, but exposure and go-getting is my suggestion. I met one guy who introduced to me another and so on and so on. If your hubby isn't too social, he will probably have a hard time doing this, so maybe he should invest some time into learning these type of skills in addition to his flying. I don't know how you LEARN to be social though. Certainly I would flood any corporate office (with aircraft) with my resume and make many followups.
Also, if you guys can afford it, I would ***** myself out for free. I think this is total BS, but it is a good way to pick up right seat flying and then develop relationships with whoever is in the left seat. This is how I got my corporate job.
Other than that, my only suggestion for getting into corporate flying is to meet the minimums with good quality flying. The sim thing isn't a dead-end thing by any means, but he needs more actual flying. In that year it would take him to get his type, he could have built up another 1000 hours and only 25 more multi hours will likely open the door. A type rating with no time in the aircraft will probably not help him as much as the 1000/100 will. You also have to keep in mind that insurance is often a corporate stumbling block.
OK, one more thing. Consider flying cargo. They seem to really be hiring right now and, like with corporate, you have more to pick from with respect to they type of flying you will do and when you will be doing it.
Hope all of that helps!
07-21-2005, 05:20 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
I must have posted at the same time as Skyhigh becuase I didn't see his last post, but I AGREE COMPLETELY!!!!
Aviation is a SMALL world in general, but corporate is even smaller and is all about who you know (or drink with....hehehe)
Aviation is a SMALL world in general, but corporate is even smaller and is all about who you know (or drink with....hehehe)
07-22-2005, 07:16 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Corporate is a "good 'ol boys" club. Even more so than the airline side. Networking is crucial. One of the reasons I'm pumping gas at an FBO right now in addition to instructing is the networking. I have a stack of business cards on my desk and keep a regular email correspondence with a number of pilots I've met over the past couple years. I should have my 135 minimums in about a year and a half and I hope it pays off. For many of the reasons mentioned above, I really have no desire to fly for a regional. I'm thinking 135 and then try to get on with a part 121 cargo operation is the way for me.
Has your husband considered a part 135 freight job to build some multi time? Flying a baron or 310 with boxes in the back is great experience. It's usually single pilot and overnight so the work is strenuous but garners quite a bit of respect within the industry because of this. Many of these companies are branching out into passenger charter becuase of the new Check 21 laws which will eliminate some of their current business (flying checks from city to city). The overnights and low pay might make this a quality of life that he may not want to consider simply because as you said, the money isn't as much of an issue but it's worth considering.
I've read a couple of your posts and I can't help but hope that someday my wife takes as keen an intrest in my career and is as supportive as you have been for your husband. It's incredible and I have the utmost respect for you. Good luck to both of you!
Has your husband considered a part 135 freight job to build some multi time? Flying a baron or 310 with boxes in the back is great experience. It's usually single pilot and overnight so the work is strenuous but garners quite a bit of respect within the industry because of this. Many of these companies are branching out into passenger charter becuase of the new Check 21 laws which will eliminate some of their current business (flying checks from city to city). The overnights and low pay might make this a quality of life that he may not want to consider simply because as you said, the money isn't as much of an issue but it's worth considering.
I've read a couple of your posts and I can't help but hope that someday my wife takes as keen an intrest in my career and is as supportive as you have been for your husband. It's incredible and I have the utmost respect for you. Good luck to both of you!
07-23-2005, 07:32 AM
#10
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Support
My wife was supportive too. However, after years of low pay, constant moving and me being gone all the time, that changed. She really hated being home alone in a strange city with small children and no help. These days she is happy for me to strap on a tool bag and go off to work. My wife and children are very happy now. I earn much more money and an home every night. We are back home with our friends and family. Late at night I secretly look for flying jobs while she is sleeping.
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