We absolutely do own and control the code by contract. All of it. We then allow exceptions (sometimes too many of course). It has nothing to do with honor or pride or ego; if anyone is getting emo about it its you but I digress.

Once we allow exceptions, it becomes difficult to reign it in, but we've done a fairly good job of reversing the damages. We recently had an opportunity to pull 49 50 seaters worth of lift (almost 2500 seats) out of DCI permanently, but we elected to go another route because we didn't feel that pulling down 125 50 seaters was worth allowing 50 much more viable and effective 76 seaters.

We also made improvements internationally (in exchange for a few areas of small compromise) and any additional JV's (and there will be several) will, by contract, have to abide by our PWA as well. Many things the company would like to do with those will require additional consent from us.

So yes, we do very much own and control the code. And by "normal change" yes I mean withering. Pay is skyrocketing in the once cut throat bottom feeder regionals faster there than anyone thought was even survivable just a few short years ago, and the sector is shrinking and will likely continue to shrink as the RFP model fades away and numerous market forces push more flying to mainline above and beyond even the contracts that own and control the legacy airline codes.

 

LOLwut?

We don't control who does the above or below wing stuff, but no one has ever claimed as much. The company can make whatever deal with whatever they want with non pilot functions. We control the code WRT pilots flying the code. That is the context that we control it, but its obvious you know that, and you know I know that, so its unclear of why you're popping chaff WRT this.

As far as regional contracts, we don't control what we don't control (gate, fuelers, ticket agents, etc) but we do control the code we fly as well as the code we allow to be outsourced. Once its permitted by us to be outsourced, then the company is free to pick who they want to do that portion of the code. Even then they are limited with restrictions. Aircraft size and weight, hub to hub and stage length parameters, etc. If we furlough, seats have to be taken out, and sometimes a massive bump and flush must occur to accommodate our pilots, subject to our CBA. Sometimes if permitted regionals go rogue and operate larger equipment than what we allow WRT our code, we must remove our code from them. It isn't just regionals either. We set terms on the Alaska code share agreement that the company must abide by. Same for international JV's. We have default language in place for any agreement, as well as specific language for existing JV's.

If you work for a regional, your PWA probably gives your pilot group control over your code as well. Some scope clauses are better than others of course.

But you're free to ignore all that and pretend its one giant free for all. You wouldn't be the first to think that. Some in the past have arrogantly thought they could just operate mainline sized equipment, even for DL! Bwahahahahaha! In any case, hopefully you're not that naive.

So as far as pilots go, which is all we care about and can control, its our code, we own it, and we allow exceptions for others to do limited and controlled amounts of it as we see fit. Sorry if that triggers you in any way, but if you want a safe space, you have to go to a place that flies its own code.

 

Haha yeah OK.

We own the pilot part of the code that our airline does. I'm still not sure why you're popping chaff on this. You admitted we get a vote. We also get a vote on pay tables and work rules and moving expenses and per diem. Our PWA controls DAL's use of our code WRT who flies it. What part about that is so hard for you to wrap your mind around? And more importantly, what are you really trying to say? Do you maybe think that DL management can hire your regional to fly 757's for Delta? 78 seat "RJ's"? One more 50 seat RJ than is currently allowed to fly DL code IAW the DALPA PWA? Actually I think we currently choose to allow unlimited 37 seat props, so perhaps you can get in on that, I don't know.

As far as your curiously random ALPA worship comment goes, SWAPA has stronger negotiated scope than we do, and APA is pretty similar. In each case though, each group owns its code.

You want to fly our code? Get a seniority number on our list and you can...or...work for an airline who is allowed to fly a permitted portion of our code by our PWA and hope that you can hold on to that. I really don't know what else to tell you beyond that.

Stay thirsty.

 

But we do own the code. 100% as far as who flies it, which to pilots is all that matters. We are a pilot group, therefore all we care about WRT the code is who flies it. Below wing and cabin crews and paint shops aren't our concern.

If DL management wants to operate additional DL code somewhere, they have to abide by our contract, because we own it. That contract allows some outsourcing, but that is by our permission. If its not a listed exemption, it must be flown by us. That is all we care about. They want to use the DL code, they have to come to the DL pilot group.

You don't think that's a bad thing, do you?

 

Boyd's been saying this same crap since 9/11. If they keep saying it enough it'll eventually be right. Props are dying and being replaced by RJ's more completely. Small RJ's are being replaced by "big" RJ's, but here we have an issue over what actually constitutes an RJ as these planes are blurring the lines. A 175 isn't much of an RJ, it can fly across most of the country. Is it short hops that makes the RJ? No... there are plenty of aircraft like 737's and A320's that do SAN/LAX or BOS/LGA. BOS/LGA is only a 35 minute flight.

On the other hand, there are RJ's doing flights that traverse the country. IND/MIA. PIA/DFW.

Not only is Boyd wrong, their analysis is does not reflect the shift in the industry.

What it should reflect is the reduction in the smallest and oldest RJ aircraft to be replaced with larger RJ aircraft and a shrinking and possible consolidation of regional carriers.

 

Don't worry if you can't understand it. I know its challenging. Many before you have thought code was a free for all too that belonged to airline management. And sometimes, in the case of non union shops, or those union shops with inadequate scope language, maybe it is. But in other cases, a pilot group absolutely does own and control the code. DL code is owned by the DALPA PWA. Period.

 

I'll make it super easy for you.

1. Attempt, even as DL management, even as a DL shareholder, even as a DL BoD member, to fly DL code outside what the DALPA PWA permits you to do.

2. See what happens.

 

What does that even mean?

Are you talking like which Flight Attendants they hire? Or how many planes they paint pink during October? You're getting really esoteric here. We are a pilot's union, therefore we only concern ourselves with pilot stuff. I guess the company can decide to pull out of a profitable market without our permission or something. Is what what you're trying to get at? Actually, even then that may or may not be allowed such as in cases of certain international agreements, or even agreements with regionals. We have absolutely no say on what brand of peanuts they serve though, so if that's what you mean, you're right about that.

I'm just referring to what pilots they use to actually fly the code. Its us, always, unless its part of our permitted exceptions. When DL code gets put on a flight, we own it, unless we have allowed to include it in a specific exception. I guess if they put the code on a line of SuperFake Rolex's on Canal Street, there wouldn't be much we could do about that, so you may have a point here. But if they want to fly the code, they have to come to us.

 

Actually there IS quite a few restrictions in the DALPA PWA that places restrictions on the code share partners and what DL mgmt can do. Stage lengths, percentages/ratios of flying, hub to hub flying, aircraft sizes, weights and numbers etc etc etc.

 

So the pilots don't control marketing, snack selection or which regionals fly what markets? Um, ok.

Actually we do have more control over the regional system than you allude to. Things such as the CPZ flow/bump and flush coupled with seat pull down if we furlough absolutely does have some level of control. So do our restrictions on the operation of non permitted types as well as how we deal with the "separate certificate trick" attempts to circumvent them. We also have controls on stage lengths and hub to hub flying, which does control who flies where on what.

To any extent that the company is free to pick and choose which regional in their "portfolio/armada" that is only because that particular flying is specifically exempted in our scope clause, which otherwise would have controlled that, too. Yes, we choose to allow some outsourcing, and within the constraints of that, the company is free to bounce around.

Its still our code though. We still control it. As far as a pilot group is concerned, there is no other function we care about other than control of who flies the code. If there was, we wouldn't have that stupid 45 degree canted oversized logo on the tail like everyone else, but on the other hand we'd probably still have the ugly snoopy nose paint job, so I'll call that one a wash.

If we controlled FA uniforms, we probably wouldn't have mandated purple either. IMO replacing Blue Diamond Smoked Almonds would be a step above the peanuts, but again, we don't concern ourselves with such things, and we don't control the snack code, just the flying code.

For that matter, they can pretend to operate other airlines within an airline if they want to. They are free to take part of the fleet, paint it green with a logo that looks like it was from the free section of a public use logo sight, give the FA's different uniforms, eliminate first class and call it some ridiculous name. But since we own the code as far as who flies it, we'd still be the ones to fly it IAW our PWA/CBA.

But you are right in that they can change the napkins at any time. We are powerless to stop them, as we don't own the napkin code. We only own the flying code, which is all we really care about anyway.