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Information about MPD!

Old 04-19-2006, 09:59 AM
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Question Information about MPD!

Hi i'm new this forum! I'm serving in Iraq with the US Army currently! I work on Apache helicopters! I have about 50 hours as a student pilot in Cessna 150, 172 and the Piper Tomahawk! I plan to get my PPL as soon as we return to state side! My goal is to be an airline pilot! I plan on going to MPD (Mesa Pilot Development) AKA Mesa airlines school after Army! So far, every pilots I contacted, even the Apache pilots have good things about MPD! They have Veterans affairs program, so the Army can pay for most of my flight training! Can some of you share your information or experiences with me? Thank you!
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:27 AM
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MAPD is the fastest method I am aware of to get into the airlines with low or no time. The biggest drawback to the quick entry is the large expense. If you can have the govt. pay for a lot of it because you are in the service, then you are getting a great deal.

I do recommend Mesa Pilot Development, it is a good program.

Just be aware of what life at Mesa will be like, however, before you get started. Mesa pays low rates to their pilots (especially starting out) and treats them fairly poorly. Many of their pilots choose to quit or transfer to other regionals because they get fed up with the treatment. Not trying to scare you, but don't want you to be "surprised" after investing so much to get there.

There are BENEFITS to this however: poor treatment creates an environment where many choose not to stick around too long, this means much quicker upgrade times than at most regionals because of the high rate of attrition. If your goal is to eventually fly for a larger carrier (which I assume it is), and you are sure you can put up with the treatment for a few years, I'd say MAPD and Mesa are the best (quickest) way into the business.

Good luck
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:34 AM
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Thank you for your service to our country! The apache is one cool bird! Be prepared to get a lot of negative responses! I'd avoid MAPD at all costs! (sorry bud, coudln't resist the exclamation point thing!) You'll spend twice as much as you would through a traditional flight school, and you'll be stuck in the right seat of a low-paying airline for quite a while because you won't have the requirements to move to the left seat. Going the traditional route may take a little longer, but you'll be in less debt and from about 250 hours or so on up, you'll be getting paid and working with people that are doing the same thing you're doing (NETWORKING!!) Go to MAPD, and you're trying to pay back a huge amount in high-intrest loans on a salary that at the end of the day isn't even a living wage if you consider all the time you're not getting paid while in uniform. There are a bunch of people in the industry that don't have much respect for this type of "pay for training" where you essential buy a job. Also, be wary of any flight school that charges you more for using your GI Bill bennefits. I know of a few that do this. I wouldn't go there. You earned that right to use those funds, and shouldn't be taken advantage of as a result.

There have been a couple heated threads on this very topic. I'd look for those. Also, check out the flight traning fourm. There are probably 200,000 threads (highly exaggerated, but it seems like that) threads that ask the same questions you're asking.
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:12 AM
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There were a few ex-mil guys there when I was there. Total cost a year or two ago came right in around $60k-$65k for flight training, college, and living expenses for the 1.5 years or so you are there. The military covers, what, like 60% of that, right? It's a pretty good deal. Keep in mind though, when you will be getting out, MAG will be in contract negotiations. Not a very good time to be wanting a job at the company IMO.

Coming from the military, you'll be able to fit right in, you're used to getting sh!t on.

Oh, and for the love of god, stop using "!" at the end of each sentence.
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Old 04-19-2006, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ShortBus_Driver
Just be aware of what life at Mesa will be like, however, before you get started. Mesa pays low rates to their pilots (especially starting out) and treats them fairly poorly. Many of their pilots choose to quit or transfer to other regionals because they get fed up with the treatment. Not trying to scare you, but don't want you to be "surprised" after investing so much to get there.
Yup.

Originally Posted by ShortBus_Driver
There are BENEFITS to this however: poor treatment creates an environment where many choose not to stick around too long, this means much quicker upgrade times than at most regionals because of the high rate of attrition. If your goal is to eventually fly for a larger carrier (which I assume it is), and you are sure you can put up with the treatment for a few years, I'd say MAPD and Mesa are the best (quickest) way into the business.
Two things wrong here...

1) MAPD graduate do not come anywhere near to meeting ICAO ATP mins due to their low PIC time...they might have the seniority to upgrade in 2 years, but they often won't have the flight experience for 4-5 years. I have known folks to buy a 152 to get the 1200 hours PIC...in fact that 152 got passed around a bit...

2) MAPD and other pay-for-training (PFT) programs are generally not held in high regard within the rest of the industry. Graduates are considered (rightly or wrongly) to have bought a job and to have a very shallow experience base. Many airline pilots hold each PFTer personally responsible for the current state of the industry ( I do not, so hold the flame).

This can create real problems if you ever decide to leave Mesa for a major airline...you will be competing for jobs with folks who have CFI and/or 135 experience in their background. And if you think you will want to stay at Mesa...let me just suggest that you keep all of your options open...


Please read some threads on flight training here and at flightinfo.com before you commit to a PFT program

Good Luck
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Old 04-19-2006, 01:39 PM
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Please read some threads on flight training here and at flightinfo.com before you commit to a PFT program
1) MPD isn't a PFT program, not sure what gave you that idea
2) MAG pilots don't seem to have problems finding other employment if they want to (skywest gets a lot of the FO's, southwest and America West get/got a lot of the CA's)
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Old 04-19-2006, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fosters
1) MPD isn't a PFT program, not sure what gave you that idea
2) MAG pilots don't seem to have problems finding other employment if they want to (skywest gets a lot of the FO's, southwest and America West get/got a lot of the CA's)

1) Yes it is.

2) MAG pilots who worked as CFI's do fine. To clarify, other regionals will hire any MAG FO, if a lateral move is your aspiration. However, there are people at Major airlines out there who resent the whole PFT concept and will not hire a PFT/ non-CFI applicant. Maybe you won't run into one of those guys on your interview board... as always, there are exceptions to the rule...do you feel lucky? AWA/USAir will not be hiring for a long time, and SWA is far from a sure thing for any applicant.

The MAPD crowd will probably tell you it ain't so, but that's just wishful thinking on their part. If you have any doubts, go over to the APC major airline forum and ask those boyz what they think about an MAPD graduate flying airliners...

You can make your own choice, but please be informed when you do.

Last edited by rickair7777; 04-19-2006 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 04-19-2006, 02:13 PM
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MPD has 2 programs. The one for 0 time pilots and the one with people who have the commercial and multi engine license. I would avoid the first one because, firstly, it doesn't apply to you but to people that actually have to pay it's ridiculously expensive for what you receive, 250 hours of flight time. Secondly you won't get a good reputation if you tell your fellow pilots that your a MPD graduate. Thirdly your going to be a FO for a while.

If I was you, I would get the commercial, multi-engine at a local flight school and become a CFI and instruct untill you have around 600 hours. THEN try the 2nd PACE option at the MPD. This way you still get a job at reduced minumums and you have that CFI experience.
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Old 04-19-2006, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BURflyer
If I was you, I would get the commercial, multi-engine at a local flight school and become a CFI and instruct untill you have around 600 hours. THEN try the 2nd PACE option at the MPD. This way you still get a job at reduced minumums and you have that CFI experience.
I agree PACE is a much better option, but if you get a CFI and acquire a few 100 hours of dual-given...you may as well just continue to CFI for 1000 hours, Mesa will hire you at that point anyway with no cash outlay.

If hiring is slow, PACE will probably get you in sooner, but that is not the case right now.
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Old 04-19-2006, 03:24 PM
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The ab-initio is fast-paced training PP thru Comm-AMEL in high performance equipment to airline standards. It is a good value ($135 or so for a Bonanza, $250 or so for a Baron). Where can you find a Cessna 172 for less than $125 anymore?

Last edited by EngineOut; 04-19-2006 at 03:28 PM.
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