SkyHigh

Who's to say where the line of acceptability is between paying for your ratings and paying for your job? Isn't a training contract paying for your job? What about the low wages of being a regional FO it too seems like paying for your job.


In the end we all pay dearly for the career. Some pay with wasted years of their lives others pay in cash. I would highly advise paying in cash. In the long run it is much cheaper.


SKyHigh

EngineOut

You 'da man!

Ask any of the ab-initio students who came in with a PP or better if it's fast paced or not. By the way, most students who survive the training are start to finish in 15 months, not 24. No summer vacation in Farmtown, bud. AND, these guys get the IR/COM-SE/COM-ME in 4-5 months.

Most of the people commenting on this subject have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. Avoid opinions based in heresay and generalities.

MAPD is a unique training opportunity for a lot of people. It is not PFT (although you could argue that the PACE program is), training takes place in high performance equipment. Could it be done with cheaper equipment? Sure, but at least you aren't paying $200/hr for a 172 w/CFI like some other national flight schools.

rickair7777

Yes, it is PFT. At the point where the COM AMEL training ends and CRJ training begins. You are paying JO to train you in an airplane so that he gives you preferential hiring...ie buying a job.

As I have said before, MAPD is a quality program that performs as advertised...that is very unusual in the flight-training con-game...umm, industry. I am however trying to educate entry level folks as to some of the downsides of PFT which are not obvious to them at this point in their careers. I am not here to bash folks who have already crossed that bridge...that's a waste of valuable keyboard wear & tear.

rickair7777

Bud? I doubt that you would call me "bud" if you met me in person.

Specifically, MAPD PFT starts when you start the CRJ training.

Absolutely I believe that. But the CFIs didn't have a year-long CRJ prep course and 40 hours of sim. A chimpanzee could pass an RJ sim ride with enough training.

The way to look at is like this:

The CFIs spend a couple years learning the material...most pass the final exam, but a few don't.

The PFT's spend a couple years memorizing the answers to the exam...and then some of them STILL flunk out



You said the magic word...EAST. If the eastern boyz prevail, there will be a different mindset compared to the old AWA. Only time will tell on that.



There are ALWAYS exceptions. I'm talking to the average white guy pilot who doesn't have a trust fund, an uncle on the 777, or an affirmative action ticket.

I'm not jumping on ANY bandwagons...right or wrong or somewhere in between, my conclusions are my own and have been formed on-line and in the jumpseats of various other carriers.

fosters

You do realize that the graduates go to other a/c other than the CRJ, right? By your reasoning they wouldn't be passing the 1900, D8, or ERJ ground schools and sim because they haven't had any schooling in that area. Joe Smoe can pass ground/sim training at pretty much any airline.

He was the average white guy, no trust fund, no relatives to walk his resume in, etc. He worked hard while interning and viola, he gets a job. I helped an AirTran guy brush up in a twin 2 years ago because he was getting placed in a ground school there. 1200TT, 200 multi, all piston from CFI'ing and renting. He worked as a ramp manager at AirTran and they gave him a shot at the 717. Again, no trust fund, a white dude, didn't know anyone in flight ops, etc. etc. You'd be surprised how many people are hired at low time (I unfortunately, wasn't one of them...).

My biggest issue with the low time stuff is that they seperate the pilot group. If you get a lot of low timers in at the airline, those guys want growth and upgrades, not QOL. They will severely handicap the unions' role in trying to get the QOL, pay scales, etc. raised. This is why, IMO, mesa is so hated.

directbears

That's a load of sh!t, and I'll stop short of calling you/him a liar. I have FIVE GOOD friends at AirTran (all captains with at least 5 years seniority) and ALL have walked a signed copy of my resume to the lady that is in charge of the hiring. She said she wanted to help out, but couldn't because of the 500 hr 121 PIC requirement (I lack that but have a large amount of total and jet time). They stand HARD and FAST to that MINIMUM requirement.

So I don't know how this "guy" you "helped" got that opportunity. Unless he was ex-military with 1000 hrs of jet jockey time or was just pulling your leg.

There have been low time people hired at airlines in the distant past, but it was a different time then, when the industry wasn't saturated with QUALIFIED pilots and the ones that usually got the call tended to be of the "protected" status of employment. I believe they call that "making the quota".

fosters

Settle down there. Re-read my post. AirTran has/had a very strong internal hiring policy in place. If you don't want to believe it, fine.

According to him, the lowest time guy they hired was around 700TT, but he had worked for the company for about 5 years. But you don't believe it, so you don't care I suppose.

Why is it so had to believe?

FedEx has a strong internal hiring policy, too, however you must at least meet the mins prior to interviewing.

directbears

I could believe this if it happened before 9/11. They were hiring anyone and everyone back then. If after say, 2001, I'd have a hard time believing it.

Yeah, "according to him". Do you have a name (if that's not prohibited on this site)? I'd like to ask my friends about him. If not, I'll ask them if they have heard of this internal hiring policy.

I would suggest that AirTran holds to this as well, especially when looking at the vast amount of QUALIFIED pilots looking for work.

Who knows, maybe it is the undeserving that always get the breaks.

rickair7777

I agree wholeheartedly.

Longbow64

Well, I just want to thank everyone for the replys. I'm still looking into going to MPD, I know it's a lot of money, but since I'm in the military, I should get financial help! Plus, I have money saved up! Thank you!