The Natives Are Restless
01-28-2009, 07:39 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,511
Originally Posted by CRJPlt
Please explain to me what Freedom had to do with the 500 unemployed at Comair?
Two months later Delta signed a deal with Freedom to fly the same number of aircraft.
Two months later Delta (and Comair) entered bankruptcy. Delta told Comair the deal was off because they couldn't afford to be purchasing any new aircraft in bankruptcy.
Delta proceeds to buy jets anyway and lease them to Freedom for a dollar a month. I guess the Comair folks couldn't come up with the buck?
So Freedom gets 30+ aircraft and Comair furloughs pilots.
Furthermore, in 2006 Delta goes to bankruptcy court and waves around Mesa's pilot contract (and others) and says if you make the Comair pilot contract crappy like this one, Delta can let Comair grow again. The judge believes them, throws out the pilot contract, and Delta rewards Comair by shrinking them an additional 38% in the next two years.
Those 34 aircraft meant 374 pilots and roughly 289 FAs.
If I had to guess, that's what he meant by Freedom costing Comair 500 jobs.
Don't take it personally; by Freedom he may mean JO, not the pilots.
And yes, Delta stinks too.
01-28-2009, 07:49 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,511
Originally Posted by logic1
Mesa wheeled into HI and killed off Aloha with 4 crj 200's....wow!
Are you saying that 4 aircraft can't pull enough passengers from 13 aircraft to put a dent in Aloha's razor-thin profit margins?
Those 4 50-seaters represented 12% of Aloha's CASM. I'm sure Aloha wasn't making a 12% profit to cover the potential loss. At a more reasonable 2-3% profit margin, the 12% loss would have crushed Aloha.
Of course you'll have to search JO's laptop to find the real numbers.
01-28-2009, 08:29 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: retired
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by Boomer
In May 2005 Delta penned a deal to award Comair 34 aircraft. At the time, Freedom was not part of DCI.
Two months later Delta signed a deal with Freedom to fly the same number of aircraft.
Two months later Delta (and Comair) entered bankruptcy. Delta told Comair the deal was off because they couldn't afford to be purchasing any new aircraft in bankruptcy.
Delta proceeds to buy jets anyway and lease them to Freedom for a dollar a month. I guess the Comair folks couldn't come up with the buck?
So Freedom gets 30+ aircraft and Comair furloughs pilots.
Furthermore, in 2006 Delta goes to bankruptcy court and waves around Mesa's pilot contract (and others) and says if you make the Comair pilot contract crappy like this one, Delta can let Comair grow again. The judge believes them, throws out the pilot contract, and Delta rewards Comair by shrinking them an additional 38% in the next two years.
Those 34 aircraft meant 374 pilots and roughly 289 FAs.
If I had to guess, that's what he meant by Freedom costing Comair 500 jobs.
Don't take it personally; by Freedom he may mean JO, not the pilots.
And yes, Delta stinks too.
Two months later Delta signed a deal with Freedom to fly the same number of aircraft.
Two months later Delta (and Comair) entered bankruptcy. Delta told Comair the deal was off because they couldn't afford to be purchasing any new aircraft in bankruptcy.
Delta proceeds to buy jets anyway and lease them to Freedom for a dollar a month. I guess the Comair folks couldn't come up with the buck?
So Freedom gets 30+ aircraft and Comair furloughs pilots.
Furthermore, in 2006 Delta goes to bankruptcy court and waves around Mesa's pilot contract (and others) and says if you make the Comair pilot contract crappy like this one, Delta can let Comair grow again. The judge believes them, throws out the pilot contract, and Delta rewards Comair by shrinking them an additional 38% in the next two years.
Those 34 aircraft meant 374 pilots and roughly 289 FAs.
If I had to guess, that's what he meant by Freedom costing Comair 500 jobs.
Don't take it personally; by Freedom he may mean JO, not the pilots.
And yes, Delta stinks too.
Those 30 something airframes were Atlantic Coast DoJets...
01-28-2009, 09:31 PM
#24
*********
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by Boomer
Aloha only had 13 aircraft flying inter-island.
Are you saying that 4 aircraft can't pull enough passengers from 13 aircraft to put a dent in Aloha's razor-thin profit margins?
Those 4 50-seaters represented 12% of Aloha's CASM. I'm sure Aloha wasn't making a 12% profit to cover the potential loss. At a more reasonable 2-3% profit margin, the 12% loss would have crushed Aloha.
Of course you'll have to search JO's laptop to find the real numbers.
Are you saying that 4 aircraft can't pull enough passengers from 13 aircraft to put a dent in Aloha's razor-thin profit margins?
Those 4 50-seaters represented 12% of Aloha's CASM. I'm sure Aloha wasn't making a 12% profit to cover the potential loss. At a more reasonable 2-3% profit margin, the 12% loss would have crushed Aloha.
Of course you'll have to search JO's laptop to find the real numbers.
01-28-2009, 09:46 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,511
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
What about the revenue that Aloha was bringing in off their mainland flying (with the -700s), as well as the cargo ops?
Somehow JO was able to "predict" that 4 CRJs would put a damper on Aloha's chances.
And if a little bird (and by "little" I mean "laptop" and by "bird" I mean "filled with porn") told JO that 9 CRJs would be needed, I'm sure go! would have gotten 9 CRJs.
01-29-2009, 09:14 AM
#26
*********
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by Boomer
Not enough to stay afloat, history shows.
Somehow JO was able to "predict" that 4 CRJs would put a damper on Aloha's chances.
And if a little bird (and by "little" I mean "laptop" and by "bird" I mean "filled with porn") told JO that 9 CRJs would be needed, I'm sure go! would have gotten 9 CRJs.
Somehow JO was able to "predict" that 4 CRJs would put a damper on Aloha's chances.
And if a little bird (and by "little" I mean "laptop" and by "bird" I mean "filled with porn") told JO that 9 CRJs would be needed, I'm sure go! would have gotten 9 CRJs.
