The mention of pushing the condition levers to max - which is our procedure on landing and whenever necessary to kick ice off the props - got me to thinking a little bit about the Q400 differences. I know the 400 has a more advanced system with several positions for the condition levers instead of having them directly control the prop blade angle. The computer figures out what is the most efficient setting. If you push the condition levers to max in the 400 does it change the blade angle or would the computer still be doing a lot of the work for you? I was just curious. I know it may not have anything to do directly with tailplane icing, etc, but it could have something to do with recovery procedures from such an event.

This has been some really great info on this thread, and I'd like to thank everyone for all the great information. I look forward to reading more on this thread. It's a great way to turn a very negative downer of a day into a positive learning experience.

I don't know if anybody has mentioned it, but in addition to the cautions about tail plain icing, there needs to be something said about ice bridging. Many pilots still have a lot of bad information when it comes to when they should blow the boots. It has been proven that ice bridges are a myth and that the boots should be blown early and often in the icing process.

THis pilot has it right. Let's not continue the sharper surface collects more ice theory/empirical debate.

Continue your safe practices of de-ice and anti-ice before flight, use of engine anti-ice when in or descending into icing conditions, turning the wing system on when the ice light or actual ice appears, etc.

And as professional pilots, continue to review the upset recovery procedures for icing and non-icing events.

Very good and informative video. Thanks for posting that.

Got this from the NTSB a couple months ago, thought it was relevant for all to see with regard to aircraft ice.

************************************************** **********
NTSB PRESS RELEASE
************************************************** **********

National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: December 18, 2008
SB-08-58


************************************************** **********

NTSB ISSUES SAFETY ALERT ON OPERATING AIRCRAFT IN ICING
CONDITIONS

************************************************** **********

Washington, DC - The National Transportation Safety Board
issued a Safety Alert titled "Activate Leading-Edge Deice
Boots As Soon As Airplanes Enter Icing Conditions."

"This Safety Alert, directed to the pilot community, is
intended to increase the visibility of airplane icing issues
and address procedures taught regarding the accumulation of
ice before activating deice boots," said NTSB Acting
Chairman Mark V. Rosenker.

Some of the highlights of the newly issued Safety Alert,
which was approved by all five Board Members, are:
* noting that as little as 1/4 inch of ice can be deadly;
* as little as 1/4 inch of leading edge ice can increase
the stall speed 25 to 40 knots; and
* early activation of the deice boots limits the effects
of leading-edge ice and improves the operating safety
margin.

The Safety Alert states that leading-edge deice boots should
be activated as soon as icing is encountered, unless the
aircraft flight manual or the pilot's operating handbook
specifically directs not to activate them.

In the Alert, pilots are instructed to maintain extremely
careful vigilance of airspeed and any unusual handling
qualities if the aircraft manual or the pilot's operating
handbook allows for an accumulation of ice before activating
the deice boots, and to turn off or limit the use of the
autopilot in order to better "feel" changes in the handling
qualities of the airplane.

"When followed, this Safety Alert will create a safer
environment for pilots flying in icing conditions," Rosenker
stated.

I flew with a CA a few weeks ago who said on his decent (EMB-145) the airplane was set for VS -1500FPM and he looked down and noticed he was diving at 4,000FPM, he then said he clicked of the autopilot pulled back as HARD as he could and NOTHING, he said the airplane was buffeting quite a bit he looked at the EICAS, no indication of ICE, none on the windshield but selected the OVERRIDE button and within seconds ONE SEVER JOLT and the aircraft regained control and smoothly descended........

Our airplanes are great at picking up ice and getting rid of it, but Ice is a very funny thing, it sometimes slowly builds up without being detected, remember AUTOMATION, or ICE DETECTORS, or Stick Pushers, Windsheer Warnings, etc all of these things are there to HELP us, but it is up to the HUMAN PILOT to FLY THE AIRPLANE, because we are the ones who know when our planes are not flying like they should........


Human ingenuity and technology is not more advanced then mother nature and the elements.......

Very well said. We, as pilots, always complain that the general public and media think planes fly themselves now-a-days.... We have to make sure that pilots don’t start believing the hype. It’s so easy to fall into the trap of trusting an EICAS or “automated” system that we relieve ourselves of the responsibility of monitoring conditions all the time. As Captains or Flight instructors/Check Airmen we must pass on the reality of aviations complexities to our students/mentored so they realize that this is a complex career.

I will leave speculation to the Media and the fact finding to the NTSB, ALPA, and the FAA. My deepest condolences to the crewmembers and friends at Colgan, the passengers’ families, and those others affected by this tragedy. I am certain that the crew was professional and put forth every effort, may we all share the courtesy of not providing the media with fodder here.

I have to disagree that ice cannot bridge when boots are used too early. I can tell you from my experience on the Beech 1900 that ice will bridge if the boots are used improperly.

It is important to know if your aircraft has the "newer" (which inflate quicker) or "older" style deice boots. At my airline, not Colgan just to be clear, they were teaching us that the Beech has the new style boots. This is absolutely false. In my experience, it is beneficial to allow for some accumulation of ice on aircraft equipped with older boots.

This is the best thread I have ever read on an aviation message board.

Seconded. Thanks tzadik for starting the discussion, and to all who have contributed.

What does the OVERRIDE button do?