Had an incident years ago that later figured was an elevator stall - PA-44 in cruise over the Cascades. PA-44 has a very small stabilator for size when look at it. Started picking up just a bit of ice on the wings, figured be through it soon - but noted the elevator controls became 'twitchy' and there was a rhythmic 2 cycle/second very subtle fore/aft oscilatory pressure of the yoke, felt not seen. Pondering this when altimeter instantaneously unwound 500 feet - no pitch over like classic stall, no flutter, no turbulence, no falling sensation, just a subtle smooth nose over but immediate loss 500 feet. Being very much the novice then, pulled instead of pushed - descent flattened and climbed it out of the layer.

Scared me. Only later learned about tailplane stalls and figured out what it likely was.

 

I was wondering about the pusher. I was hoping that wouldn't push when you need to pull. And that stinks about the elevator control. Buffeting on the elevator is a cue.

 

thanks guys im really stoked with the replies here... initially i was worried that people would think i was speculating and being insensitive but when i started researching i knew i had to put this out there for everyone. while im newer to the industry i consider myself a very competent pilot and quite frankly it freaked me out a bit. like i said in my original post had i encountered a tail stall whilst low and slow i would have been unable to recognize/recover and that’s a sobering thought.

ive had little experience with icing and i do the majority of my flying in warmer climates... my icing knowledge is basically visible moisture/cold temps cowls on and if i feel an ice caution coming flip on the wings. de-icing with type I and IV seems fairly simple, but the fact of the matter is i have received little training on recognition, avoidance, recovery, etc. what’s increasingly frightening is often times the PIC has not much more experience than myself.

im still not sure if the CRJ is susceptible to a tail stall?

its good to see the brain trust working as one here and to be honest I think this kind of discussion really helps lift spirits.

 

Tailplane Icing

 

They never said it wouldn't form on the tail of a CRJ, they just said that it wouldn't adversely affect the flight characteristics. I've personally seen it on the tail a couple of dozen times.

 

That video is almost 100% of the same that we had in the USAF when I flew Beech 1900s. In the video we saw, they showed a test plane flying with ice buildup and then showed ice on the tail. It was absolutely amazing. Up until then, I thought ice buildup would look smooth and contoured to the wing. However, the video showed (as does this one does somewhat), that ice buildup is jagged and pointy. It was amazing that the aircraft was still flying with the ice it had.

One last thing, and please take this as "for training purposes only". Also, for the lawyers or CNNs out there, this is my opinion ... so don't be putting my words on the nightly news.

Our carriers are in it for the money, and they may not give us all the training or information we need. That's why we are professionals. And professionals seek more knowledge about their craft. I've seen some responses on here like "we weren't trained for that" .. etc. And you're right, we weren't. But, we at least can teach each other and learn from other's misfortune. As I was once told, the notes, cautions, and warnings are written in blood and they are there for a really good reason.

If you are flying an aircraft susceptible to tailplane icing and there isn't anything about it in your company manuals, press the company to get smart and/or issue a change. As the NASA video said, 16 crashes have been attributed to this type of icing. Before this video, there was very little corporate knowledge about it out there. Let's get smart, teach each other, force our companies to do the right thing, and fly safe!

-Fatty

 

WOW

I had seen parts of that video before (in response to the Eagle ATR), but never the whole thing. Very eye opening. Good post.

Here's the full course:
Aircraft Icing Training

6-9 hrs worth of material.

 

They came and talked to us when I was a CFI at Western Michigan. It was a good presentation and they had some pretty crazy videos of tail plane stalls. The recovery for a tailplane stall was essentially the opposite of a wing stall.

 

I have to tell you that my MOST memorable experience at Flight Safety occured in recurrent training. They simulated a single engine ILS in icing. No big deal. I turned on the boots and was on my merry way just inside the marker thinking it was a piece of cake.

All of a sudden, the nose slammed down (full motion sim) and everything went black. I thought the sim had broke but my instructor informed me that I had just died in a tail stall crash. I never bothered to notice that my tail boots had malfunctioned and stayed inflated. You can bet your a$$ that I check that system each and every time I use it now to make sure it is on and operating as it is supposed to. It was something I took for granted until that moment. It had a great impact on me.

When you do something, make sure it's doing what it's supposed to. Another nice thing at FSI is that we have to watch that NASA video every year. I pay attention.

 

Excellent video. Thanks for posting that. I had some trouble at the original site with the full thing loading. Here's the same video at another site which worked much better with my net/computer setup. Again, thanks.

Tailplane Icing

Edit: I had trouble viewing the video at the part135 website, the link I reference is at Google, which worked well for me. Thanks to all who posted the links. Sorry for the duplicate.