ILS 23 in BUF
02-20-2009 | 07:45 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 0
From: none ya...
I just did this approach and can state, without hesitation, that there is a major issue with the glide slope.
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue)
As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump.
If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS.
Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense.
We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!!
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue)
As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump.
If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS.
Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense.
We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!!
02-20-2009 | 07:47 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 0
From: none ya...
02-20-2009 | 11:34 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: AB F/O
I just did this approach and can state, without hesitation, that there is a major issue with the glide slope.
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue)
As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump.
If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS.
Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense.
We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!!
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue)
As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump.
If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS.
Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense.
We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!!
02-20-2009 | 12:13 PM
#44
New Hire
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Lear
This ILS approach into BUF is not unsafe or unlike any other approach in the world. In fact many ILS approaches I've come across have similar notes associated with them. Whether or not there is a note warning of possible interference outside of a specific range, it all comes down to the one and only constant that is prevelent in every aspect of flying......Fly the plane. If the magic autopilot starts pitching up dramatically, the PF should disengage it immediately, not wait and try to figure out "What's this stupid thing doing now." Too many times in my experience, I have seen fellow crew members with their hands in their laps and in a total relaxed state just depending on the autopilot to do its magic. Maybe this tragic accident will remind us all to never get that relaxed and confident in the autopilot, and be ready with our hands on the controls ready to disconnect at a moments notice our trusty autopilot.... and one more thing don't leave the autopilot on in icing.
I'm not implying that either one of these issues is the cause of the BUF tradgedy, but it is a good time to remember to get back to the basics......fly the airplane.
I'm not implying that either one of these issues is the cause of the BUF tradgedy, but it is a good time to remember to get back to the basics......fly the airplane.
02-20-2009 | 03:20 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,218
Likes: 60
From: Legacy FO
I wish the airline section of the forums were only for Airline Pilots. The hiring and additional forums could be open. You bet, the news media is lurking here. They've even quoted members here in their broadcasts and reports.
-Fatty
-Fatty
02-20-2009 | 10:52 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
From: Stage Left
This ILS approach into BUF is not unsafe or unlike any other approach in the world. In fact many ILS approaches I've come across have similar notes associated with them. Whether or not there is a note warning of possible interference outside of a specific range, it all comes down to the one and only constant that is prevelent in every aspect of flying......Fly the plane. If the magic autopilot starts pitching up dramatically, the PF should disengage it immediately, not wait and try to figure out "What's this stupid thing doing now." Too many times in my experience, I have seen fellow crew members with their hands in their laps and in a total relaxed state just depending on the autopilot to do its magic. Maybe this tragic accident will remind us all to never get that relaxed and confident in the autopilot, and be ready with our hands on the controls ready to disconnect at a moments notice our trusty autopilot.... and one more thing don't leave the autopilot on in icing.
I'm not implying that either one of these issues is the cause of the BUF tradgedy, but it is a good time to remember to get back to the basics......fly the airplane.
I'm not implying that either one of these issues is the cause of the BUF tradgedy, but it is a good time to remember to get back to the basics......fly the airplane.
Minor issues from time to time, yeah we've all seen those, this is not a minor or safe issue.
02-21-2009 | 09:14 AM
#48
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
I've seen phantom localizers as well, and watched the autopilot capture and try to follow it, there are a couple airports that it's happened at, but i cant remember which ones. Also had a situation in MKE with a localizer bouncing moving from side to side, half scale deflection and immediately back the other way.
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