ILS 23 in BUF
02-19-2009 | 10:51 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
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I once had the auto pilot parallel a LOC in the CRJ. I took it off and hand flew it. And no it was not attempting to account for wind. The CRJ sucks at intercepting on strong cross winds.
We have to remember, it is a computer flying data generated by other computers and computers mess up. We all have had our home computers do stuff that a quick reboot fixed. (A reboot sometimes works on the CRJ too.)
We have to remember, it is a computer flying data generated by other computers and computers mess up. We all have had our home computers do stuff that a quick reboot fixed. (A reboot sometimes works on the CRJ too.)
02-19-2009 | 12:11 PM
#32
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From: 767A
Personally I don't arm APR (I select LOC only) until the LOC is at least alive. I can only speak for the models I've flown, but they all will capture a glideslope whether you're on course or not.
I've seen some pretty wild pitch maneuvers when the AP captures a "false" glideslope well off course. And yet I'll bet half the pilots I fly with arm APR as soon as they hear "cleared approach".
Yes, I've made it a two step operation and added the risk I'll forget to select APR. I'll take it as the lesser of evils.
I've seen some pretty wild pitch maneuvers when the AP captures a "false" glideslope well off course. And yet I'll bet half the pilots I fly with arm APR as soon as they hear "cleared approach".
Yes, I've made it a two step operation and added the risk I'll forget to select APR. I'll take it as the lesser of evils.
02-19-2009 | 12:16 PM
#34
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From: 737/FO
Why would you arm the approach that far off course? AIMEE is more than 16 miles from the loc antenna. The service volume is 35 degrees to 10 miles and 10 degrees to 18 miles. If you were 5 miles south of the loc you were outside the 10 degree service volume. My airline requires the localizer to be armed and captured before selecting the approach mode. I've seen the flight director do some weird things but arming an approach that far out is just asking for trouble.
02-19-2009 | 12:17 PM
#35
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From: 737/FO
I've seen phantom localizers as well, and watched the autopilot capture and try to follow it, there are a couple airports that it's happened at, but i cant remember which ones. Also had a situation in MKE with a localizer bouncing moving from side to side, half scale deflection and immediately back the other way.
ILS 27 at IAH coming in from over SBI. I've seen it there too.
02-19-2009 | 12:23 PM
#36
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From: 737/FO
It should be simple for the NTSB to determine if the pitch up occurred before or after the AP disengaged.
This is ILS glitch is interesting, but my gut feeling is that neither a modern airplane nor a professional crew would allow a GS to put them in an uncontrollable flight regime.
This is ILS glitch is interesting, but my gut feeling is that neither a modern airplane nor a professional crew would allow a GS to put them in an uncontrollable flight regime.
02-19-2009 | 12:45 PM
#37
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Rick, I agree. Having flown with Marvin, I just don't believe he would allow that to happen. But I also can't believe he allowed the a/c to slow with the additional drag of gear and flaps to the point of getting the stick shaker/pusher as stated in the WSJ report. He was better than that. While I hate it, we'll just have to wait for the NTSB determination.
02-19-2009 | 02:57 PM
#38
New Hire
Joined: Feb 2009
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are you all aware that the localizer was reported + or minus 1 dot at 1500' by dl 1998, the next a/c to land after colgan didn't?
even spookier is that tower asked them to verify the localizer -- told them it looked fine [green] to them in the tower but wanted a report anyway.
even spookier is that tower asked them to verify the localizer -- told them it looked fine [green] to them in the tower but wanted a report anyway.
02-19-2009 | 09:31 PM
#39
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From: Stage Left
I just did this approach and can state, without hesitation, that there is a major issue with the glide slope.
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue)
As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump.
If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS.
Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense.
We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!!
Approach had us turn to intercept the loc between the LOM (Klump) and the fix outside of the LOM (Trava). When we were approximately 2 miles north of course at 2300, and 3 miles from Trava, the GS was showing that we were above it. (First glaring issue)
As we were intercepting the loc, I watched the GS go from one dot low to full scale high in about 1/4 mile and about 1.5 to 2.5 from Klump.
If we would have had the approach mode set to capture the GS, the autopilot would have had a very significant nose up attitude to chase the GS.
Since I saw the notice to the SWAPA, we did the same thing and only armed the nav until the glideslope made sense.
We were in hard IFR with 30 xwinds and blowing snow and had to turn the autopilot off to handle the conditions.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS APPROACH!!!
Last edited by DeltaPaySoon; 02-19-2009 at 10:13 PM.
02-20-2009 | 05:33 AM
#40
Day puke
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Out.
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