In the C402, how does the First Officer log time? It's a one pilot airplane.

Do their Operation Specs. require two pilots since they fly both 121, 135?
In which case... Does the FO log SIC for the 402?

Interested to hear what many of you think about this airline as a place to start off your career.

In addition, to anyone who may have the answer to the above please post!


Sincerely yours,
jdoggins.

 

I use them often from SJU. I have never seen them fly with a copilot. Normally they use the seat for passengers.

 

I beleive the CO-pilot position is only for training purposes.

 

The FO would log SIC for any live legs with passengers and sole-manipulator PIC for Part 91 repositioning/ferry flights. That's at least how I understand it. Perhaps an FO could chime in and explain it better because I'm not 100% up to speed on it. I know they log it though.

As far as a career starter, I think it'd be a great place. The 402 is a good first step up from a training aircraft, in that it's a high performance turbo twin that actually requires some care and technique. It'll also teach you how to interact with passengers and how to operate as a crew. And when you get your 1500TT you'll get an ATP and get some good Part 135 PIC time. Granted, it's not turbine, but it's still great experience IMHO.

 

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...pe-air-21.html

Check out DylanFan's post on this page. And the rest of the thread.

 

I work for a 135 op that has an FAA approved SIC program. Per the FAA's requirement, the SIC is trained and tested to the same standard as the 135 PIC's. They even get an 8410 that has to be kept on record with the company. They legally can manipulate the controls, as well as log PIC time for any duration of the flight that they are the sole manipulator, as long as of course a legal PIC is next to them.

As for when they are not the sole manipulator, this is where it gets tricky. I've read the letter that was sent to the company from the FAA in Washington in regards to this very topic. The letter stated that these SICs can "act as SIC" but because the plane is certified for one pilot only, "under no circumstances shall they log SIC". From what I understand if you touch the controls, it's PIC, if you don't, it's not even flight time.

That being said, we are a cargo op. If the regs require an SIC even though the plane does not require it (example: FAR 135.105), I imagine you would be able to to log it as SIC.

Let me state that this is my understanding, and by no means an exaustive one. However, I've seen the documents from the FAA and it seems very compelling.

Hope this helps

 

Maybe it works different when you carry pax and when you carry cargo as someone mentioned above. As i just asked on another thread, think about the guys from Scenic and New Mexico Airlines.

 

Nice writeup. I do think that it's a bit different with Cape because in being a scheduled commuter carrier with multiengine airplanes, an ATP is legally required to act as PIC on a live leg. I'm pretty certain FOs are only allowed to log SIC on a 135 leg unless they have an ATP, in which case they wouldn't be flying as an FO in the first place.

Hell, I dunno. This was the subject of a pretty good watercooler discussion I had with a few other pilots a few weeks back. That was the consensus. Could be horribly wrong.

 

I think the answer is in whether the FAA requires or does not require the SIC. Our op is approved for SIC but not required. It would have to be this way, otherwise who would fly the required right seat in a passenger op if you couldn't log it. Sadly, the problem is the FAA's reluctance to take a position on, or for that matter, explain anything.

 

Hi!

If you are REQUIRED to be the SIC (insurance, ops specs, whatever), you can log SIC the whole time. Cape Air uses SICs, for example, in the Capt's first 100 hours at Cape Air-they legally need an SIC for that time period. You CAN log PIC when you are flying, if you are rated.

HOWEVER, for almost all of your interviewing and applying purposes at other flying organizations, they only want PIC when you are legally responsible for the aircraft and signed the logbook.

If you are a student pilot, no PIC/SIC, even when you are solo.

I am applying for the Japan 767 contract jobs, and you are ONLY allowed to count PIC/SIC (multi-crew or single pilot) time. So, even your INSTRUCTOR time doesn't count towards the 3000 minimums, much less solo or student, or anything else!!!

cliff
GRB