Commuter Hell
02-26-2009, 02:16 PM
#31
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Are we just going to sit here and take this?!
No! Parts of this article are crap and enough is enough! Write to this author!
By playing up the age and big plane vs. small plane issues Joe Brancatelli is just playing to the lowest, dumbest plublic common denominator.
Yeah, drive more America, because statisically, it's way more dangerous, but 20 to 25 year old children are one of the crewmembers! Oh no!
Instead of using his piece to use public leverage to improve regional ("commuter") pilots' relations to parent companies the article tramples the graves of two of our fellow aviators (in my opinion).
Further the piece insults anyone flying professionally who is
1) young in age
2) is/was regional affiliated
3) recently upgraded; "but he'd only been in command of a Q400 since last December"
4) or non military; "When I got out of the Navy, I had 1,800 hours of experience before I even got into commercial aviation" "a reality celebrated last month when 58-year-old Chesley Sullenberger, an Air Force vet with..."
5) fill in the blank
If you feel like I do, follow the link at the bottom of the Washington Post article, and contact Joe Brancatelli and tell him respectfully and briefly what the truth is.
Basura!! (garbage!)
By playing up the age and big plane vs. small plane issues Joe Brancatelli is just playing to the lowest, dumbest plublic common denominator.
Yeah, drive more America, because statisically, it's way more dangerous, but 20 to 25 year old children are one of the crewmembers! Oh no!
Instead of using his piece to use public leverage to improve regional ("commuter") pilots' relations to parent companies the article tramples the graves of two of our fellow aviators (in my opinion).
Further the piece insults anyone flying professionally who is
1) young in age
2) is/was regional affiliated
3) recently upgraded; "but he'd only been in command of a Q400 since last December"
4) or non military; "When I got out of the Navy, I had 1,800 hours of experience before I even got into commercial aviation" "a reality celebrated last month when 58-year-old Chesley Sullenberger, an Air Force vet with..."
5) fill in the blank
If you feel like I do, follow the link at the bottom of the Washington Post article, and contact Joe Brancatelli and tell him respectfully and briefly what the truth is.
Basura!! (garbage!)
02-26-2009, 02:19 PM
#32
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by GrUpGrDn
But do we apply make-up when flying?
That doesn't make sense. I don't think that follows what I said. I'm saying that the other people driving and cell phoning, smoking, and generally being a meance to the driving public are dangerous. What are you saying??
The ignorance of the non-flying public is what astounds me. They need to be educated. And this talking-head, fan the hysteria fire, mouthpiece for the (dare I say), dumb, article is by and large horse apples.
The author does little to further anyone's cause but the bank accounts of himself and the publisher!
02-26-2009, 02:28 PM
#33
C21H30O2
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: L/R or workin' the panels!
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by block30
What??
That doesn't make sense. I don't think that follows what I said. I'm saying that the other people driving and cell phoning, smoking, and generally being a meance to the driving public are dangerous. What are you saying??
The ignorance of the non-flying public is what astounds me. They need to be educated. And this talking-head, fan the hysteria fire, mouthpiece for the (dare I say), dumb, article is by and large horse apples.
The author does little to further anyone's cause but the bank accounts of himself and the publisher!
That doesn't make sense. I don't think that follows what I said. I'm saying that the other people driving and cell phoning, smoking, and generally being a meance to the driving public are dangerous. What are you saying??
The ignorance of the non-flying public is what astounds me. They need to be educated. And this talking-head, fan the hysteria fire, mouthpiece for the (dare I say), dumb, article is by and large horse apples.
The author does little to further anyone's cause but the bank accounts of himself and the publisher!
02-26-2009, 02:31 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by oasis04
USMCflyr
By your estimation what is the avg. age and hr. total for your students when you punch them out of the frs?
Its been awhile but I seem to remember gettin nuggets into our squadron flyin Phrogs (HMM-162) with <500 hrs. Granted we had two pilots and a min crew of three, yet I would speculate that one of your Hornet drivers hits the fleet squadron with less than 1000 hrs total time. These pilots are often single pilot with dangerous stuff hangin from the wings and belly.
By your estimation what is the avg. age and hr. total for your students when you punch them out of the frs?
Its been awhile but I seem to remember gettin nuggets into our squadron flyin Phrogs (HMM-162) with <500 hrs. Granted we had two pilots and a min crew of three, yet I would speculate that one of your Hornet drivers hits the fleet squadron with less than 1000 hrs total time. These pilots are often single pilot with dangerous stuff hangin from the wings and belly.
I base the flight hours on him having no prior flight experience and checking yesterday what a small sampling of our newest class of pilots have coming to the Hornet (250-280+) and then adding another 120 hours in the Hornet before hitting the fleet.
Now...those newly trained wingman hitting the fleet can be thrown RIGHT INTO a combat situation when they leave the FRS and find themselves sent to an already deployed squadron aboard USS Boat sitting in the Gulf flying OIF/OEF missions. They also are on someone's wing most of the time as you might imagine - but stranger things have happened. also - no one is on their wing when it is time for that night carrier approach with pitching decks and a dutch roll thrown in for good measure. What they are able to accomplish is amazing. My hat is off to them. Brave men and women are they.
USMCFLYR
02-26-2009, 02:34 PM
#37
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by GrUpGrDn
driving while conversing on phone, smoking. maybe applying make-up is not a menace. when have you heard of or seen someone applying make-up while flying?
02-26-2009, 02:40 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
On average - I'd say they are 24-25 years old and have approximately 400 hrs of flight time. I base the age on a college graduate (22 y/o) and then 2-3 years through the pipeline to hit the fleet.
I base the flight hours on him having no prior flight experience and checking yesterday what a small sampling of our newest class of pilots have coming to the Hornet (250-280+) and then adding another 120 hours in the Hornet before hitting the fleet.
Now...those newly trained wingman hitting the fleet can be thrown RIGHT INTO a combat situation when they leave the FRS and find themselves sent to an already deployed squadron aboard USS Boat sitting in the Gulf flying OIF/OEF missions. They also are on someone's wing most of the time as you might imagine - but stranger things have happened. also - no one is on their wing when it is time for that night carrier approach with pitching decks and a dutch roll thrown in for good measure. What they are able to accomplish is amazing. My hat is off to them. Brave men and women are they.
USMCFLYR
I base the flight hours on him having no prior flight experience and checking yesterday what a small sampling of our newest class of pilots have coming to the Hornet (250-280+) and then adding another 120 hours in the Hornet before hitting the fleet.
Now...those newly trained wingman hitting the fleet can be thrown RIGHT INTO a combat situation when they leave the FRS and find themselves sent to an already deployed squadron aboard USS Boat sitting in the Gulf flying OIF/OEF missions. They also are on someone's wing most of the time as you might imagine - but stranger things have happened. also - no one is on their wing when it is time for that night carrier approach with pitching decks and a dutch roll thrown in for good measure. What they are able to accomplish is amazing. My hat is off to them. Brave men and women are they.
USMCFLYR
I came up the civilian route and thus have no idea how intense the military training is. However, I would venture to guess that 400 hours on the military side is a much different type of 400 hours than found on the civilian side. In other words, the quality of 400 hours in a military training program is probably different than a civilian's first 400 hours.
02-26-2009, 02:56 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Lab Rat
USMC,
I came up the civilian route and thus have no idea how intense the military training is. However, I would venture to guess that 400 hours on the military side is a much different type of 400 hours than found on the civilian side. In other words, the quality of 400 hours in a military training program is probably different than a civilian's first 400 hours.
I came up the civilian route and thus have no idea how intense the military training is. However, I would venture to guess that 400 hours on the military side is a much different type of 400 hours than found on the civilian side. In other words, the quality of 400 hours in a military training program is probably different than a civilian's first 400 hours.
But I'll tell you what - - I'll put up a Commercial Pilot with instrument rating who is going for his CFI certification against that same freshly minted FRS aviator in the area of some basic aviation knowledge (pick any of the FAA writtens) and even the PPL would probably eat him alive!
Just remember this.....the airplane (in my community) is nothing more than a flying weapons system. We military pilots are NOT professional pilots. I don't get paid to fly. I get paid for being a Marine - flying is just what I do when Uncle Sam needs some attitudes readjusted
If I want someone to take off from an expeditionary airfield at night and conduct a self-escorted strike on NVGs; then I'll chose the military trained pilot. If I want someone to get me safely from DFW to LAX in IMC, then that 25 y/o, 1000 hr "child" is better suited to be flying my family around in an RJ anyday (as part of well trained and coordinated crew) - IMO.USMCFLYR
02-26-2009, 03:03 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: none ya...
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by bryris
This industry needs a huge cash infusion if there is any chance. Ticket prices must go up. And the family wearing wife beaters and fuzzy slippers onto the plane may not be able to go anymore.
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