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DublinFlyer 04-05-2009 06:20 AM

I actually really liked his article. I thought it was well written, to the point, and easy for someone not in the airline industry to comprehend.

Good job on the part of Mr. Smith!

captain152 04-05-2009 07:37 AM

Great article!! Very good read.

Jetstream 823JS 04-05-2009 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by brewpilot (Post 590747)
Ok, that was a good article. But I just have to ask, besides being a CFI and teaching students to fly, then getting enough hours. The next step is Regional airlines. That's the way it's been going right? The aircraft have been getting alot better from let's say the 70's or 80's but we all start somewhere

Yes, We all start somewhere. I have flown with some very very low time new hires at PSA and overall they were very good pilots.

The problem is that these guys want to upgrade ASAP in order to get a livable wage.

When I had 3000 hrs I was right where Captain Renslow was; Flying an ice laden aircraft into Buffalo at night. Only I was doing it in a 310R loaded with bank checks.

I cringe when I see advertisements for flight schools asking; Why fly a trainer when you can learn in a CRJ?

The left seat of a Q400 or CRJ is a pretty lofty perch for a pilot with 3000 hrs.

avi8tor4life 04-05-2009 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by Jetstream 823JS (Post 590802)
I cringe when I see advertisements for flight schools advertising; Why fly a trainer when you can learn in a CRJ?

The left seat of a Q400 or CRJ is a pretty lofty perch for a pilot with 3000 hrs.

And not a place to learn to fly. No experience leads to bad decisions at crucial times.

wizepilot 04-05-2009 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by avi8tor4life (Post 590808)
And not a place to learn to fly. No experience leads to bad decisions at crucial times.

Bingo! Could not have said it better myself!

eaglefly 04-05-2009 08:17 AM


Originally Posted by Jetstream 823JS (Post 590802)
Yes, We all start somewhere. I have flown with some very very low time new hires at PSA and overall they were very good pilots.

The problem is that these guys want to upgrade ASAP in order to get a livable wage.

When I had 3000 hrs I was right where Captain Renslow was; Flying an ice laden aircraft into Buffalo at night. Only I was doing it in a 310R loaded with bank checks.

I cringe when I see advertisements for flight schools advertising; Why fly a trainer when you can learn in a CRJ?

The left seat of a Q400 or CRJ is a pretty lofty perch for a pilot with 3000 hrs.

True.

When I was hired by my regional carrier in the mid 1980's, their minimums were 2000 hours total and 500 multiengine. There were plenty of applicants and many of those were not hired and a certain percentage didn't pass training.

The left seat of an RJ is no different then the left seat of a 767 responsibility wise. Friends who fly International say that their former regional and RJ flying was more work, more tiring and effort intensive, then riding over to Glasgow 4 times a month with an autopilot, an international officer (typed F/O) also known as "movie critic" to share the duties. Many F/O's have to go to the sim every few months to get landing qualified.

It's a pretty easy gig compared to slogging around domestically for 90 hours a month, shooting a lot of approaches, windy landings and dodging TRW's. Most of those pilots deserve the higher paying gig and are thankful they don't have to bang around in RJ's 90 hours/month.

It's intersting that aircraft size has so many fooled (even a a lot of pilots !). Many would be shocked if they heard of U.S. domestic 757 captains with 3000 total hours and F/O's with 500, but for some reason with RJ's, it's not so surprising. Many are just as suprised to hear of pilots with 10-15,000 hours flying RJ's (I have 16,000) as they now many assume they're all inexperienced kids.

Crazy.

Mesabah 04-05-2009 09:40 AM

My first captain position was the CRJ 900. I had 1589 TT(495 of that 121 FO time) when I finished OE. My first trip off OE was with a new hire FO that had 300 TT and it was his first trip off IOE as well. I had just turned 24 and my FO was 20 years of age.

Lost 04-05-2009 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 590843)
My first captain position was the CRJ 900. I had 1589 TT(495 of that 121 FO time) when I finished OE. My first trip off OE was with a new hire FO that had 300 TT and it was his first trip off IOE as well. I had just turned 24 and my FO was 20 years of age.

Wow. Just wow.

Mesabah 04-05-2009 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by Lost (Post 590850)
Wow. Just wow.

The trip was uneventful, however, it just points out where our industry was/is at different points in time. I.E. If I were flying this plane at mainline, I wouldn't be the captain of it, not until many years down the road.

Oh, and on an ironic note; when I got of HMC status, since I was bottom reserve, they were pulling other HMC off of trips and putting me on them. One in particular flight had a captain with 15,000 TT but was still high mins; The conditions dispatch wanted to send us in were not legal to dispatch a HMC.......

elcid79 04-05-2009 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by BIrwin (Post 590760)
Not making a value judgment, but it seems to me that the norm through much of the 90's was close to 500 hours to get a good full-time flight instructor job, and 1500-2000 hours+ to get in with a regional (some exceptions exist such as GLA). In many cases it took several thousand hours to get a "good" regional job (decent pay & no Pay For Training). There was never an expectation to fly a jet aircraft right out of school. Many of those hired by the regional airlines already had some PIC experience in a 135 environment, in all weather flying.

Yeah, but in the 60's MAJORS were hiring people with nothing more than a private pilot license.... "Experience" Seems to be based upon hiring demands. Some of the scariest pilots that I have ever flown with in my 10 years of flying were at the top of our seniority list, with buckets of time. Although I feel that experience is important, I believe that good decision making, quality leadership, and a centralized focus upon SAFETY is far better. I would personally rather fly with a 250 hour pilot who exhibits these traits and strives to meet them, than ANY of the 10k hour pilots that dont. Just my 2 cents.


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