My aim is not to dull your enthusiasm but to point out that aviation has become a working hobby playground for the retired and financially independent. Ten years ago you would have never had those opportunities. Twenty years ago if you were 30 or older you were considered too old to start at the airlines. Times have changed and to your benefit however the hobby pilots disregard for actually earning a living is a part of what is helping the industries slide.

Enjoy,

SkyHigh

 

I can`t let that last B.S. statement pass....My Delta class (G66) average age was 29..that`s the average..we had several 33 year olds. In 1990 (that`s 16 years ago), when I was doin` line checks on the MD88, I had a bunch of f/o trainees in their mid 40`s, all military retirees. At approximately the same time I attended Tail Hook and spoke to a guy that had just retired from United. He was a retired Admiral, and got hired at age 58. He said that United couldn`t give any reason not to hire him except his age...big mistake..he contacted whatever government agency takes care of those type problems and they had a little talk with United...Oh yeah...it didn`t hurt that he was a black man either.

 

Well then please enighten us. I know that there was a time when people were shunned from the majors for being over 30. They were also turned away for having less than 20/20 vision, being outside of the weight/height chart and for having a relative already working for the company. Therefore how far was my timeline off? Perhaps it was UAL who had the age limitation? I am all ears.

SkyHigh

 

Ok......then listen..........It all pretty much changed after industry deregulation 1978 deregulation. Prior to that, as you say, age 30 for the Majors was pretty much the cut off and physical standards were very high. You pretty much had a job for life if you got hired at a Major back then, with a couple exceptions. There were furloughs every so often but you always came back. Seat progression was very slow........many spent 10 years as an Engineer. 15 to 20 year Capt upgrades were not unheard of. That all changed with the mega expansion and many start ups post deregulation.

 

The EEOC got involved (that`s the Equal Opertunity Commission) in the late 70`s (sorry, I can`t supply an exact date) age went out the window. Stews that had been required to stop flying because they chose to marry were reinstated with full back senority if they wanted to come back.Female store clerks (including my own mother) were awarded years of back pay if they were paid less that male counterparts. All age hiring limitations were lifted for pilot applications (except the mandantory age 60). Prior to that time, my own airline`s age cut off was 33. United was hit very hard, because they refused to hire women pilots. EEOC got involved big time with them...United hired about every female that had a pilot ticket, including some who should never been hired, but that`s the price they had to pay for violating the laws. That`s why I called Skyhi`s latest rant. Total B.S. Of course all this is moot now...almost every airline out there isn`t hiring and thousands of airline pilots are furloughed. Just another cycle in the life of an airline pilot. I`ve been through 3 of these cycles, the first in the early 70`s when the oil embargo occured. The industry will recover, but tell that to a guy without a flying job.

 

Thank you both for supplying that information. I myself remember looking over height-to-weight charts from united and strict vision requirements in the late 80's. In addition I think that UPS and American Airlines both have anti-nepotism policies in place. The only other age limitations that still stand are the minimums and maximums set by the FAA. Without guys like you to help educate us about the past we would be at a disadvantage. It is important to record the oral history of our elders in order to preserve it for future generations.

SKyHigh

 

That sums it up. It all boils down to the price you paying and the return you get on your investment.

Yes, I know that pilots argue about flying being so rewarding. I have been there and used the same argument over and over until I actually convinced myself that it was true. Then one day I looked out the cockpit window and suddenly came to realized the tremendous price I was paying to be able to see the sun set from 35,000ft. There is a lot most newbies do not take into account when doing the math.............

 

Thank you,

I had the same experience.

SKyHigh

 

Hey looks like the a hardcore thread hijack. Dont get into professional aviation Ive done part 91,135,and 121. I know its hard to believe that flying could possibly suck as bad as these guys make it sound but they are 100% correct. If your really really really cant help yourself and you just have to get into it despite all the advice you have gotten i would say.................

If you go to an FBO you will end up getting a CFI and instructing for about 2 or 3 years, then you can interview for a regional job. If you really need to do that, than go for it, but you will hate your life. If you want to get into it quicker than you will need to go to a cookie cutter pilot school with a regional interview (i am totally against those places, i think they should be illegal)

I instructed and worked my way through cargo and all that crap, it has taken forever. I would say plan on about 10 years until you reach a job that you plan to keep that will pay your bills. (yes you will be using stepping stone jobs and that stepping process is the better part of a decade) Then you will be a regional F/O without the ability to independantly support yourself, about 3-5 or more years doing that should give you a minimal chance at an upgrade.

You will probably get displaced back to F/O or completely furloughed so dont get confortable. Just save as much as you can and dont spend money on anything. Then after that furlough repeat the process as required for the next 5-10-15 years until you finally burn out your health from the years of abuse on your system. All the screwed up sleeping and eating patterns will make you look about 15 years older than you really are, and you can plan on dying early. But by this time your broke/in debt, furloughed and have no family/divorced, so that proposition will sound like a good plan B.

But on the plus side, all the managers that ever rained s%it down on you will be confortably retired with their families, and if you manage to keep your medical, you can fly their teenage grandkids to aspen every weekend and christmas.

 

The above posting is absolutely, positively true to the last detail.

I can add:

If you happen to be flying the grandkids to Aspen via private aircraft, you also get to babysit them while you are there.

You will be conditioned to gag at the smell of burned coffee.

When I was a kid, I got to take a few flights in corporate jets. I decided that I wanted to be the guy up front. After I became the guy up front, I realized that it was a heck of a lot better being the guy in back.