![]() |
Originally Posted by Sniper
(Post 609214)
Colgan pilots - what's the deal with your sick call procedures? Do you really not call in sick when your sick, but rather fatigued? If you feel ill, the call goes something like this: Hello crew scheduling, I am sick. Okay, we'll call in a reserve. Thanks, I'll let you know when I am better. On the other hand, some of us deal with this: Hello crew scheduling, I am sick. Oh Yeah? You need to talk to the CP. (thinking: Oh crap) |
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 609463)
All of the above hogwash aside, how about the biggest issue here: the release of the CVR tapes, and the broadcast of them to the nation tonight on ABC.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but CVRs were installed on airplanes to aid the INVESTIGATION. This was a collective agreement by airline pilots to solely aid in the investigation of aircraft accidents. I wasn't aware they would be used to drag dead pilots through the streets after a crash/incident. We don't have these things(CVRs) in cars, trains, buses or boats. If this is how these tapes are going to be used, then CVRs need to be ripped out of every airplane. Under no circumstances should the last words of any person or pilot be heralded to the nation, and then stomped on by John Nance. Side note: John Nance is a worthless piece of garbage. We're the pilots at fault? Sounds like it, unfortunately. Do they, or their families deserve for their last words to be plastered across the front page for the world to see? Hell no. This is unacceptable and deplorable. |
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(Post 609524)
For those who work for companies not called "bottom feeders":
If you feel ill, the call goes something like this: Hello crew scheduling, I am sick. Okay, we'll call in a reserve. Thanks, I'll let you know when I am better. On the other hand, some of us deal with this: Hello crew scheduling, I am sick. Oh Yeah? You need to talk to the CP. (thinking: Oh crap) STOP FLYING SICK AND ENDANGERING YOUR LIFE, YOUR CREW's LIVES, AND THE LIVES OF YOUR PASSENGERS. |
Originally Posted by FlyJSH
(Post 609524)
For those who work for companies not called "bottom feeders":
If you feel ill, the call goes something like this: Hello crew scheduling, I am sick. Okay, we'll call in a reserve. Thanks, I'll let you know when I am better. On the other hand, some of us deal with this: Hello crew scheduling, I am sick. Oh Yeah? You need to talk to the CP. (thinking: Oh crap) I can personally attest to this.. this is FACT... however, I blame the pilots who are afraid to lose a job (when they have a strong law suit) over calling in sick, when they are legitimately sick! |
Originally Posted by paxhauler85
(Post 609463)
All of the above hogwash aside, how about the biggest issue here: the release of the CVR tapes, and the broadcast of them to the nation tonight on ABC.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but CVRs were installed on airplanes to aid the INVESTIGATION. This was a collective agreement by airline pilots to solely aid in the investigation of aircraft accidents. I wasn't aware they would be used to drag dead pilots through the streets after a crash/incident. We don't have these things(CVRs) in cars, trains, buses or boats. If this is how these tapes are going to be used, then CVRs need to be ripped out of every airplane. Under no circumstances should the last words of any person or pilot be heralded to the nation, and then stomped on by John Nance. Side note: John Nance is a worthless piece of garbage. We're the pilots at fault? Sounds like it, unfortunately. Do they, or their families deserve for their last words to be plastered across the front page for the world to see? Hell no. This is unacceptable and deplorable. If there isn't anything you don't want your family reading on the news, then don't say it in the cockpit. With respect to other modes of transportation, all of them have EDRs (event data recorders) which are similar to aviation FDRs. Although CVRs aren't widespread or mandated by the DOT, they are becoming common place. Additionally, many companies are installing video recorders. |
Originally Posted by deltabound
(Post 609401)
Unless I missed something, the FAA sets the standards on who gets to fly. The tests are objective, and everyone must go through the same hoops.
The "argument" that current work conditions are discouraging more generally desirable candidates may have merit, but this tragic incident has little or nothing to bolster it. In the eyes of the FAA, these two pilots (whatever their other faults) were fully qualified and had to go through some very specific and demanding training hurdles. If this incident does bolster this "argument" in a peripheral fashion, the only NTSB recommendation I could see coming out of it would be for the FAA to make the barriers to entry and retention even more stringent (health, age, training qualification, tighter parameters and "wildcard" scenarios on checkrides, etc.). I suspect pilot labor groups would strenuously object to harder checkrides that offer more realistic evaluations of pilot skill and judgment. The "canned" checkride is very much the career aviator's friend, particularly as the years go by. Alternately, the FAA could institute a "2 strikes and you're out" policy. Two failed training events in the course of a career and that's the end of your flying (because a pattern has been established). This is a regulatory way to "weed-out" weak but technically proficient pilots and has the virtue of being objective and "fair". But man oh man . . . talk about checkride-itis! (IMHO.) Your statement about "weeding out weak but technically prificient pilots" makes no sense. If you are weak you cannot be a technically proficient pilot. The CA on this Colgan flight were said to have had problems mastering the Flight Management System, the technical aspect. I don't have all the background facts on this pilot but I did not find any evidence that he had previously failed checkrides twice. Everyone is jumping to conclusions about this crew before the final NTSB judgment is out. We do not have all the facts so we need to wait for the NTSB's final analysis before pointing fingers. Even then we shouldn't be pointing fingers at anyone for none of us are infallible to making errors in judgment. Only way to improve safety is to provide a solid training without cutting corners and increase pilot pay to attract and retain talented pilots with good disposition. Too many airlines are in a rush to finish pilots and skip vital training such as full stall recovery procedure in order to keep the sim sessions to a bare minimum. Foreign carriers in Asia and Western Europe have in general 20 to 30% more sim sessions during their pilot training to cover all the maneuvers. I know pilots with great personalities and they also happen to be good sticks who cannot afford to fly for regionals because the pay is too low. They all opted to do something else. The pilot pay needs to be increased, and crew pairing schedules needs drastic improvement and this encompasses crew duty and rest period definition. The FAA has been in bed with the airline management way too long on this one. There should be no layovers less than 10 hours and the time for rest period should not start until the crew checks in at the hotel. It definitely should not include time spent writing up the airplane for maintenance issues, waiting for that last passenger who seem to take forever to deplane, 45 minutes spent waiting for the hotel shuttle van and sometimes ludicrously long van ride to the hotel because the airline is too cheap to pick hotels that are closer to the airport. |
Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
(Post 609544)
If there isn't anything you don't want your family reading on the news, then don't say it in the cockpit.
|
The actual CVR recording can only be released by the company. It is company property and after the investigation it goes back to the company who usually destroys it. Occasionally, some companies like UAL with Al Haynes and UAL 232 release it because it serves a value to the entire aviation community. The CVR transcript is part of the investigation. It gives insight to the attitude, actions, mentality, etc., of the cockpit. It does serve an invaluable role in the investigation. Often times that's how they piece critical data together.
Extraneous conversation, such as two pilots talking about the hottie in back, will not included into the transcript because the hottie wasn't in the cockpit and had no material relevance. Otherwise, what you say is public information should the worst happen. Years ago I worked on a CVR team and it took months afterward before I felt like I could talk normally in the cockpit again because everything I said replayed for myself as if I was being investigated. Do your best and be professional. |
Originally Posted by CE750
(Post 609462)
And even if you are a reporter (And I don't think you are).. so what? It's the reporters that are going to shed some light on the broken racket mess that the "Regional" airlines are and the disaster they've been to not only our profession, but as will soon be very clear, to the traveling public.
Transparency NObama calls it, right? Oh and don't forget to blame the evil CEO's who forced you to work for them. You'll be a hero. |
I'm not an IFR rated pilot, but maybe he was afraid of dipping too low under the ILS Glide Slope? Aside from the danger of a possible obstruction, would you get in trouble for that if ATC caught it?
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:32 AM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands