AZFlyn1

I am quite sure this topic has been covered before, however, with regard to my own situation, I'd love some advice...

My new hire class in 11/07 never got an ALPA presentation, and I've never belonged to a union before. This has been one hell of an eye-opener for me. So far, the ONLY thing I see them caring about is getting my money. I figured out on my own when to turn in my paperwork so they could start taking that $42/month out of my paycheck... well, they neglected to do so for the 1st and 2nd month... and I guess on top of that they want some stupid ass $120 merger fund or assessment as they call it. I have no clue.. no one ever told me about this... So, before I know it, I get a bill for around $200 that they want payment for... I was absolutely incredulous... so I called them, e-mailed them and told them that I am a 2nd year FO who made $18,939 last year... and you expect me to cough up $200 at once? Then they tell me, well, if you fill out an application to make payments of $25/month you can do that... I basically told them to stuff it, that I'm not applying to make payments on a debt that in my opinion, I did not incur, they forced on me... I told them I'd pay whatever I could when I could and sent them a check for $50 as a good faith gesture... what did I just get in the mail? A letter stating that if they don't get the rest of their money within 30 days, they are going to kick me out of the union... and I'm already in "bad standing"... this is a friggin joke... There was a time when I couldn't wait to be an airline pilot and be part of ALPA... I still love being an airline pilot, but I absolutely hate what I'm seeing from these people... I also told them that how can they expect someone who makes poverty wages to just come up with $200 because they say so?? I'd love to hear other stories and know other opinions, but this union is a joke if they're going to treat their members like this...

My question is, should I really care if they expel me? What could happen? I'm so ****ed at them right now I can't see straight... so any good, sound advice would be greatly appreciated.. thanks!

rickair7777

Assuming you are closed shop (I think all alpa carriers are) they can petition the company to fire you for non-payment. It might take a while, but it can be done.

Not sure if I'd string them along over $200 since it's hard to predict how long your termination will take. I suspect that you would get a certified-mail warning before they fire you.

Another option is to resign from the union...legally you can do that but you still must pay some or all of the dues for your representation, even as a non-member. You are correct in that they don't care if you are a member, but they do care about your dues...enough to fire you.

Unions in this industry are a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't proposition.

Pontius Pilot

Yes, you should care. Regardless of how you feel about unions, you need yours. You don't want to get expelled. Call and speak with one of your reps - like your FO rep for your domicile and speak with them and see if you can't work something out with money. Maybe someone would be willing to front you the money to pay the bill and get it over with.

Believe me, should you need ALPA they will be there to help you out. They have been a great resource when I have called with problems. Getting expelled will not look good and it could definitely screw up your future prospects. As the above post points out, damned if you do/don't. You're not going to get rid of the unions whether you like them or not. Its best to play their game and smile - just like you do at the airline. Does it suck? Yes. But it is to your advantage.

flyingsucks

Thats about all you will get from Alpo. I worked for an Alpa carrier on the Dash for 5 years in both seats and they tried the same crap. I never paid a dime and always got those stupid you are in bad standing letters. Heck I still get garbage from them and it has been 3 years since I left there. It's up to you but that is alot of beer money for a monthly magazine. I never paid any dues and the company in 5 years never gave me any crap about it.

APM145

Check your PM

sweptback

I don't know what the merger fund is about, $120 sounds pretty steep. Given the total lack of regional mergers taking place that seems unnecessary to me.

However, you have to take some blame for the dues situation. After being in the industry for a year you had to know that dues would be taken out of your paycheck after your probation ended. When you got that first paycheck with the higher rate of pay and no union dues deduction, you should have been following up with payroll. You'd do the same if they shorted you pay, and it would have been easier to just get it fixed rather than get a bill in the mail.

That being said, we have guys delinquent on dues at my airline for thousands of dollars. While it's technically possible for the union to force the company to terminate you for non-payment, I don't see it happening except in totally rare cases.

AZFlyn1

Thank you for your response... actually, I took it upon myself to turn in my paperwork so they could deduct my check right away. As for the $120, they still haven't explained to me exactly what that's for. I have no problem whatsoever paying the 2 months of back dues they neglected to take, but to demand $200 from someone who makes so little is ridiculous. Like I said, I even gave them $50 right away to show that I am in good faith. I'm not sure what else I could've/should've done different

flyerfly

I understand that the bills were a sudden surprise and expense. I would look to your local MEC for not getting at you during initial. I've been at 2 airlines and each airline had a member of the MEC come down and take us out for dinner and explain all the things ALPA does for us.

It is very important that if your airline doesn't have something like that set up, maybe you can be the guy to do such a thing or at least get on your MEC about it. Pilot education is one of the many things I'm pushing for in my union. People that don't know anything about the union often times are the ones complaining.

To all of us lets remember that ALPA is only as strong as YOU make it. If you don't like what is going on, get involved!

John Pennekamp

I used to be an ALPA rep. It is a lengthy process to get someone fired for non-dues payment. At ASA we had (have) several members who have owed thousands of dollars for years and they are still here. The fact is that they have to send everything via certified mail, and if you send them $1 a month they can't touch you.

But do call your rep and discuss it with them. National is useless, all they want to hear from you is "I'm sending my check". Don't waste your time talking to National.

EWRflyr

I, too, was an ALPA representative before moving to the majors.

First, you should have sent a dues checkoff form in to ALPA. Can be done at any time before your probation is up. They would forward it on to payroll for deductions to start coming out when your first year was up. But that point is moot now.

Second, ALPA will send a bill after the first year to all new members for $25 initiation fee plus the cost of premiums to continue the ALPA insurances which were provided to you free of charge during your probationary year. Once off probation it is up to you whether you want to continue these ALPA insurances. You are only obligated to pay the initiation fee. Insurance will stop if you don't pay those premiums.

I don't know about this "merger" assessment you talk about. Could this really be insurance premiums of some sort? Are you sure it is not a "furloughed pilot medical assessment" that was passed during your probationary year? From what you have stated, the only thing I can see you owing is the $25 initiation fee plus the 1.95% dues from the time your probation ended to when the money was deducted from your check. You would be on the hook as well for any assessment since your probation ended.

I strongly encourage you to contact both your FO representative as well as your LEC secretary-treasurer for help in resolving this matter.