The Rah Guys Better Like The E190
 

For many reasons, RAH and the E190 is not going to go down well. Maybe those guys better get comfy cos moving on to a major might just get a little harder.


:eek:

JJ

You don't get it do you? RAH is becoming a larger airline. The legacy models and pay are decreasing and dwindling.

Where was the outcry when Comair started taking MY Delta flying in the 1990's? Look where it has gone frrom there.

The Regional pay and aircraft are the new normal.

Instead of wondering if a RAH guy might not get hired by your legacy carrier - you should be concerned more with keeping your job, pay and benefits that are overpriced by today's market.

Peter - I'm afraid I have some very bad news, your wife's gonna be a vegetable. You're gonna have to bathe her, feed her, and care for her for the rest of your life.
Guy - OH MY GOD!
Peter - No no no, I'm just kiddin. She's dead.

What were you flying at DAL at the time? A 70 seater???
Did CMR's CVG 50 seaters cost you your job?

We all have to make choices. If I were a regional guy at RAH and hoped to move to a major, I would avoid the 190 like the plague. Career suicide!



JJ

Is it possible for all Republic pilots to boycott bidding for the 190. Some serious solidarity is needed here.

Don't put this on Republic. NWA/Delta ALPA changed your contract scope language to leave Midwest and Midwest pilots out to dry.


You built this bed... sleep in it!

no, it is not possible for us to boycott the 190. we have a payscale for up to 99 seats (i agree it blows). our local has been locked out and taken over by teamsters national. there is nothing in our current contract that will allow us to refuse to fly these aircraft. dont blame the pilots. i came to RAH to hopefully be based at home in MCO, or where I was born and raised (FLL) flying 37 and 50 seat aircraft. FLL closed before i was out of indoc and MCO before my first year was over. I want a better contract, we are working on it, but bashing our OLD contract which was signed when we were a fraction the size we are today is pointless. It is what it is and those of us that are here at RAH are stuck with it (for now).

Instead of worrying about who to blame, it would be nice to see a group or several step up to the plate and do what's right...You said "Don't put this on Republic" It is ON Republic whether they like it or not. It is on all of us. Look in the mirror and ask yourself where you draw the line.

Wow. That is the rationale a scab uses when he crosses a picket line. I'm speechless.

Comair and ASA didn't steal anyone's pension, so why don't we just put this argument to bed once and for all.

Yea this one sucks.... no way around it for now.

Just cuz you've been doing it longer doesn't make it right. Hey, what happened to all those DAL guys that got furloughed back in '01 and were hoping to hop on at Comair for awhile without giving up their seniority???

Know a lot of scabs do you? Or are you just making things up?

In case you did not know, the Midwest chief pilot is a scab. So yes, he knows more than you think.

Another brilliant post.

I'm sorry ladies and gentleman, but this is only the start.

5 years from now when 250 of these aircraft are being flown by regionals, most won't even remember this. It is inevitable and now, unstoppable.

Try to think of more pleasant things.........denail seems to be a way of american life, so join the party.

Jesus I wish drug tests didn't test for pot.

/time for a 30 day vacation starting with a solid week in AMS

Then I'd say it's not possible for you guys to get hired at a mainline carrier in the wake of this E190 disgrace.

You guys have a contract with rates for a 99 seater. You made that possible!

Stuck with it for now? You're commiting career suicide and will be stuck at Rah for good!



JJ

I suspect there will not be any pure 190 lines... with only two aircraft and the fact its a common 170/190 type the crews might be flying a 175 on one leg and the next leg be flying the 190. And at least for now is just the pilots at Republic. Shuttle and CHQ at least for now wont be involved.

I've been in this industry now for 3 years. Been reading the boards quite a bit in that time as well. To be honest.., based on what I've seen, and read, and heard, I feel that this "solidarity" so many speak of is a myth, or at the very least a reality I will never see in this industry based on the apathy and indifference that exist. That and the "I got mine crowd" seem to me to be the biggest impediment to bringing any solidarity to this profession. We need a fundemental paradigm shift before any EFFECTIVE change will occur. Not likely to occur in my opinion. At this point in my career, my priorities are my health, my family, my career.

At no point in any of these threads have I felt the true spirit of solidarity that compelled me to change my actions with regards to doing my job or make a self sacrifice (read: fall on my own sword) so that those higher in seniority could continue to enjoy job security, prestige and, great pay. Sorry that's how I see it.

With regard to the E-190, do you seriously think that ANY pilot who cares about their family, their livelyhood, and being out on the street in THIS economy, Is gonna ACTUALLY refuse to fly it??? I don't know what world these folks live in, but I tend to focus on the real world.

Employment at the "Legacy Carriers" is becoming less and less attractive to me these days. Don't think I'm gonna be heading in that direction. Threats are a little school yard don't ya think?

Pilots don't get to choose what aircraft their airlines fly, MANAGEMENT AND THE MARKETS make those decisions. THE ONLY thing we AS pilots have control over is the speed and altitude we chose to go from A to B. Not crazy about every decision thats been made by this airline's management, but that's life in the 121 world.

If or when it comes my time to fly the E 190, don't expect me to fall on my own sword. That is unless we all collectively intend to provide us (pilots who refuse to fly it) with either the unemployment income or another job..., any takers.., didn't think so.., so much for "solidarity."

I'm gonna continue to do my job as I would expect any professional pilot to do. If it makes you all happy, when or if our union ever gets it's collective self together, we'll see about better pay. Don't hold your breath. So there it is.., do with this what you will. Don't get me wrong, I love my profession, myjob and the folks I fly with, hell I even like who I fly for (RAH).

Imagine that, a pilot who actually enjoys working for the airline he flys for, what a concept.

3 years huh?

I could have guessed that from the above post!


BTW, there are many major airline pilots out there who enjoy flying for their airline.
There just aren't many who want to see their management empowered by the willingness of bottom feeders like yourself.


Enjoy the regionals. Your myopia makes you taylor made for them.


JJ

We are even told what altitude/speed to fly at now days. :D

As much as it hurts, this post is correct. Regardless of the solidarity thing, people will most always work in their best interests. If you have an airline pilot group that all work for the same carrier, solidarity can be obtained to organize work actions, etc, because it benefits the individual.

But to expect another pilot group to say "NO" over flying to benefit another group, is just a pipe dream.

The water has been rising for quite some time.

"Que the band!"

Unfortunately, and I hate to say this, but you are right. The root cause of this mess is the scope clause that allowed it. There will always be pilots at the bottom of the chain willing to fly anything with jets for little money no matter who it hurts....always. WE at the majors curse these pilots for what they are doing, but the reality is WE would have done the same thing as a young pilot eager to break into the industry. To call these guys scabs is not only incorrect by definition of the word but also an insult to the thousands of pilots that came up through the same route you now criticize. How quickly some of you forget what YOU did to earn your wings. How much did YOU make before you got to the majors? The point of my little rant is this....

Those of us at the majors must use this travesty as a guiding light for our next contracts. Most of us are in the process of negotiations or will be very soon. We must, at this level, put a stop to this once and for all. If we have rock solid scope language at the majors level there will not be the opportunity for the regionals to come in with these "regional jets" and take our flying. It is OUR responsibility to prevent it, and when we do not, the blame rests ONLY on us for allowing it.

I don't think it's fair to put this on the pilots at RAH. We always find these things out at the same time as everyone else through the same means. We've yet to have any communication from the company on this. We'll deal with it on our end but unfortunately that takes time(ie contract neg).

I hope like hell they find some way to get around the 99 seat rule. I'd like to see them argue that the aircraft can hold 100 seats and thus is considered a mainline aircraft(which is what the DOT considers it). You can pull a seat but it's still a 100 seat aircraft.

I know that midwest pays the fuel bills so I hope taxi times and procedures are adjusted accordingly. A few returns to gate due to dual engine taxi should help.

Unfortunately you are one of the 10 or so mainline guys that DO remember where you came from. Unfortunate that there are so few i mean.

Holy crude....somebody who gets it....ALL these legacy carriers and so called majors like MW... need to LOCK DOWN THEIR SCOPE. Otherwise 10 years from now the "big" airlines will be flying very little domestic feed.

There is already a thread on this.

oh my god .. there's more than one of you ..... your RAHpilot5 ? God... would i love to see just how awesome 1 thru 4 are? :D geez man your good, your good.

its fair to put anything on this guy... the face of midwest connect..err i mean just midwest now.. enjoy mke tduck

STOP BLAMING THE REGIONALS!

Chautauqua would still be flying SAAB 340s around the NE if USAir hadn't given up the 50-seat jet.

United was Chautauqua's first customer for the E170.

USAir and Delta gave even more ground when they allowed up to 76 seats in exchange for a ratio of E170/CRJ900s for each new mainline jet.

Blaming the company that steps up to fill the need presented by mainline is displaced anger.

This fight will never be won by trying to fight from the bottom up. Those in the seats at the mainline carriers now are responsible for the direction the industry takes in the future.

Listen drama queen.
Do you think Major hiring boards care? Most of them are made up of HR people now a days. They don't care.

Plus, who the Heck is hiring? NOBODY. Lots of furloughs coming in the fall.

Thread locked by RickAir in 3..2..1...

Sigh......

Hopefully at Republic. Would like to see 75% of their pilots on the street.

Statements like that make me wish I actually had taken your flying, that I had made the decision myself. Not the flying of Midwest, mind you - just your line.

This is a very radical statement. This is like someone wishing for the Bush (democrats) or Obama (republicans) administration to fail just to prove a point that they don't like what they are doing. The logical end of that failure would be a failure of the entire government. This really makes no sense unless I guess they are anarchists.

I pose this question to you, would you really like to see 75% of your fellow pilots laid off? The answer (I am assuming here) is no and neither would I nor the majority of reasonable individuals. Comments such as these do little more than infuriate and inflame; that was probably your intent I know. However, they offer zero contribution to solving any problems.

I personally do not wish to see anyone lose their jobs. The loss of a job affects a person. A person that may have children, a wife, a mortgage, etc. You probably have seen this first hand and realize the pain and suffering it causes. I understand your frustration but wishing the job loss of 1,552 pilots (give or take) would mean a lot of potential damage to those that depend on them.

My point is this, society is already a swirling cesspool spiraling deeper and deeper into the oblivion. We as pilots are less than 1% of the population. Let's try to keep our heads up and out of the sewer around us.

Happy Memorial Day and God Bless our Troops!

First, let's not forget it is Memorial Day weekend and remember all those who have given their lives in defense of our country and the liberties we hold so dear (including the freedom of speech and expression we take for granted on APF).

Second, not all mainline guys forget that it was their own fault that the situation has developed to what it has become. I have flown with some, though very few, that have said they have only themselves to blame. Most guys do trash and bad mouth the feeder carriers as the cause of their problems and like to take it out on the little guy. Ticks me off since I was one of the little guys who flew where management told me, etc.

Third, the way for this to end is to hold the line. RAH guys can keep voting 'NO' on their contract until the company coughs up the work rules and pay rates that are worthy of a professional pilot...not a regional pilot, big jet pilot...A PROFESSIONAL PILOT. You can get what you want if you stick together and not get fooled by management's dangling of more airplane orders, quick upgrades, and even more pilots on the seniority list.

Finally, on a locked thread someone mentioned "this will only lead us down the road to majors having regional contracts with regional work rules with only slightly better pay." Well at some majors that is already the case. There are far worse work rules at my current company than my previous employer thanks to a concessionary contract that should never have been voted in when it was put to a vote.

Nobody is going to be skipped over from future hiring for the sole reason that they flew the 190 at Republic.

NOBODY.

No, not for the SOLE reason. But I have NO doubts that someone has friends that once flew for Midwest, & could conviently find other reasons for sending the 'No Thanks' letter.

Is that really any different than current hiring practices?

If GoJet pilots got hired by FedEx, UPS, Southwest, and every other major who was hiring until the music stopped...do folks really think Republic pilots will be anything remotely akin to "blacklisted" simply because they're flying a narrowbody jet?