Av8rking - as I said earlier in this train wreck of a thread, take a look at the Pinnacle benefits. The rest of us could have it WAY worse. They not only board after us, they only get 3 international flight days a year, no parent benefits except for ZED, no buddies and no travel companions. So if anyone took a major step backwards, it was Pinnacle.

I'm sorry but as awful as things are at Comair, you guys aren't the only ones that have, will and are taking it the shorts.

And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. This is why ALPA is an abject failure. Believe it or not, this corrosive attitude is tolerated at the highest levels in this lame excuse of a union.

As it turns out, the former RJ drivers are the worst.

#1: If you're so hot and bothered by RJs and the undercutting regionals, then get your airplanes back. There's only so much regional pilots can do.... we don't make the managements decisions, and as you well know we can't just walk off the job if we don't like how things are.

#2: Why shouldn't MAINLINE have every aircraft? All aircraft from the 34 seat turbo-prop up through the 777? If Delta took in all those airplanes, you can bet your butt I'd apply to fly a 34-seat Turboprop.

Scope = ALL airplanes, not just jets, not just airplanes over 50 seats, etc.

You don't make managements decisions, then you shouldn't be whining about the reduction in pass benefits. And just so that I am clear, you support mainline having all aircraft, although that does not necessarily include the pilots with them.

Since when do Comair pilots care about ALPA? Comair pilots have always been out for Comair pilots. ALPA was all fine and dandy as long as flying was being handed to Comair pilots on a silver platter. When the gravy train ended, however, then came the RJDC, the complaining, the suing, and now more complaining. Cry me a river.

Sums it up nicely. Very true.

Where was I whining about the reduction in pass benefits?

Yes. If I were to lose my job because mainline got my plane back, then, so be it. I'll have a chance at a later date to apply to mainline, once I have the time, however that could come about.

You got caught in crossfire. Yours just happened to be the post I quoted. Plenty on here are blaming the pilots.

Your attitude is exactly what major carriers are looking for, and you will get your shot.

Amen! It's when my job is cut because of another undercutting regional carrier in the race to the bottom that I get upset. If I got furloughed this January because Delta wanted the flying back for themselves, then good on them (and eventually me when they start hiring again.)

I see :) It's all good.... but I really thought when I read that second part that you had written "you will get you shot" as in I'm a marked man. :D

Carry on, guys. I'd like to fly for the big boys some day and however we can ensure the big boys have the jobs, that's where we need to go.

I don't claim to know much, because I don't, but perhaps the Fee For Departure Committee is a good first step at getting the flying back to the majors.... if we can get all the regional MECs to want ONE contract scale for each aircraft, in a way there is no cost savings by going not only with one regional over another, but also any regional at all, we might be headed out of troubled waters.

I think the real question is not can we get it back to mainline, but how long until it is so and what might it take.

Ditto. I wish that were the case. It would make things better for everyone, even if it meant sacrificing your current position for a bit.

Hey Tri- whats up..:)
You are right...guys a Jack @$$ an doesnt even deserve the time of my fingers hitting the mac to respond. Hope you're doing well my friend.:)

Funny, I had a CMR Captain tell me that two weeks into my furlough in November of 2001. His name was Joe ?Last Name? in the training department there. That quote from a supposed ALPA brother is what led me to wash my hands clean of CMR. Enjoy the island.

I'll settle for S3CR but not gonna get the boot from YOUR company employees when I'm on MY airline flight with MY metal and MY pilots while trying to non-rev to go for a interview. Yes it is a privilege and a good one and yes I think we should be behind you folks on your metal but not on our metal.

I am basically throwing selcall words back in his face. I don't think like that, but it appears others get their jollies on others' misfortunes. I am no longer on that island, but I do pull for my brothers and sisters still at CMR. I hope the employee groups at CMR do whatever is necessary to stir things up regarding these crappy flight benefits.

I have no idea what Comair folks are like for the most part (well except for the scowls we got working CVG for a few months), but hopefully you don't base all of your disdain on one person's comment, no matter how vile and inflammatory. If you do, that's your perogative, of course. :cool:

I would say the same about the Delta Guys and Gals.

I would be pi$$ed at this guy too.

If I understand correctly, 8 years ago you were offended by a guy named Joe, who worked in training, and flew for Comair.

So do you hate all people named Joe?

Do you hate every pilot that works in training?

Or are you just looking for a hate vent, and 8 years later you're still all spooled up over one pilot's rudeness?

Nevermind...

Have a great weekend everyone :)

If I were you I would have been ****ed to. I hate it when I hear co-workers talking like that and unfortunately I have heard worse (though they seem to keep it to themselves when we get a DAL jumpseater).

I was hired well after 2001 (I have about 4 yrs here) and don't like the fact that what the 5% says, ends up screwing the rest of us at CMR.

Personally I wish the pass benefits turned out better, but they are stlll fine with me.

Since you decided to use the baseball theme I think that you and a majority of your "big league" pilots should not be admired or looked up to but sent back down to AAA for what you have allowed the industry to become. Yes I said you. On your watch this profession has spiraled out of control and down the toilet and what have you in the big show done. Your pilot groups have lost over 40 percent of their pay, quality of life is nothing like it used to be, benefits drop, and what have you all done but blame others. The delta pilot group had a chance to make a difference when it threatened to strike but backed down and "at least we have our jobs" but at half the pay....good job. I guess the regionals are to blame for that one. You bash Comair but at least they had the stones to try and get something better for themselves. Make their profession better...what have you all done. You blame the regionals but you should blame yourselves. The RJ could have been a mainline jet but the pilot groups refuesed to fly that equiptment at the mainline level and as a result the regionals bit. The guys in the big show blame the regional pilots for undercutting them...the pilots are doing their jobs just like you and it may be for half the price but like I said before in the early 90's the majors had a chance to prevent that from happening and didn't and the rest is history. It is easy for you all to blame the regional pilots but how many of you in the beginning of your careers would have passed up that job and instead done the 135 thing for the experience or instructed a few extra years to make yourself a better pilot. While no doubt they do just that who really would have put a hold on their careers and waited a few more years just for the principle of it. That's right I forgot you all instructed for 30 years, walked twenty miles to the airport, did freight in a biplane and at night and then decided to hold off on starting your airline career just because it helped the industry...I don't think so. I think if you all were starting out your careers now the majority of you would be in the seat of a regional jet not flying 135 for the experience. All the regional pilots should apologize for not paying their dues like they did in the big show. If peoples timing is right then good for them for making the jump. Regardless of that it cracks me up to hear you major pilot groups on your high horse when in reality you all have done nothing positive for this profession in years. Blame the regional pilots all you want but if you want respect do something to earn it. You fly big planes...that is great they work basically the same as mine just on a larger scale..do something truly impressive and be the leaders in our industry that you all like to think you are. Leave the airline profession on your level better than when started it and quit blaming managment, other pilots, world events. They all play a role that is true but bashing regional pilots for your problems in a better life is frankly a bit of a joke. You say you aren't my brother nor are your big show buddies I say thank you. I don't want to be associated with a pilot group that has watched their jobs erode and do nothing but blame others. If you want to consider yourself mr big show then saddle up and act like you all belong their or retire and give way to people that will do something to try and improve their profession.

Since you decided to use the baseball theme I think that you and a majority of your "big league" pilots should not be admired or looked up to but sent back down to AAA for what you have allowed the industry to become. Yes I said you. On your watch this profession has spiraled out of control and down the toilet and what have you in the big show done. Your pilot groups have lost over 40 percent of their pay, quality of life is nothing like it used to be, benefits drop, and what have you all done but blame others. The delta pilot group had a chance to make a difference when it threatened to strike but backed down and "at least we have our jobs" but at half the pay....good job. I guess the regionals are to blame for that one. You bash Comair but at least they had the stones to try and get something better for themselves. Make their profession better...what have you all done. You blame the regionals but you should blame yourselves. The RJ could have been a mainline jet but the pilot groups refuesed to fly that equiptment at the mainline level and as a result the regionals bit. The guys in the big show blame the regional pilots for undercutting them...the pilots are doing their jobs just like you and it may be for half the price but like I said before in the early 90's the majors had a chance to prevent that from happening and didn't and the rest is history. It is easy for you all to blame the regional pilots but how many of you in the beginning of your careers would have passed up that job and instead done the 135 thing for the experience or instructed a few extra years to make yourself a better pilot. While no doubt they do just that who really would have put a hold on their careers and waited a few more years just for the principle of it. That's right I forgot you all instructed for 30 years, walked twenty miles to the airport, did freight in a biplane and at night and then decided to hold off on starting your airline career just because it helped the industry...I don't think so. I think if you all were starting out your careers now the majority of you would be in the seat of a regional jet not flying 135 for the experience. All the regional pilots should apologize for not paying their dues like they did in the big show. If peoples timing is right then good for them for making the jump. Regardless of that it cracks me up to hear you major pilot groups on your high horse when in reality you all have done nothing positive for this profession in years. Blame the regional pilots all you want but if you want respect do something to earn it. You fly big planes...that is great they work basically the same as mine just on a larger scale..do something truly impressive and be the leaders in our industry that you all like to think you are. Leave the airline profession on your level better than when started it and quit blaming managment, other pilots, world events. They all play a role that is true but bashing regional pilots for your problems in a better life is frankly a bit of a joke. You say you aren't my brother nor are your big show buddies I say thank you. I don't want to be associated with a pilot group that has watched their jobs erode and do nothing but blame others. If you want to consider yourself mr big show then saddle up and act like you all belong their or retire and give way to people that will do something to try and improve their profession.

Really... a former regional pilot talking like this? :eek: Wow talk about remembering where you came from.

So.... what if that was their plan B and it was still full... So many things can happen I have seen it for 50 seats open to negative in less then 3hrs before the flight. Sh1t happens... we all know that.

This I have to say is true and we do appreciate that. But here is a kicker for you... I myself have given up a jumpseat at Airtran so a DL guy can take it because his duty in was coming up and I didn't have to be there till the late afternoon. I have given up my jumpseat so another pilot can get home to see his kid for his birthday. Granted I don't always give up my jumpseat but I do try to help other pilots when I can. We REGIONAL underlings also do try to return the favor to others.

You lived the regional life and you know what it's like... why are you now turning around and pointing the finger back at us... you WERE US. Many of us also are doing what you did and will move on when time permits. I'm not here to attack you but your statement is messed up or your point is misunderstood.

I personally do not think it is the fault of any single pilot group that ended in what is going on today. It was just a bunch of bad situations rolled together making a once glamours job a lot less glamours. Mainline guys took the pay cut to save the company and the industry. Regional contracting was cheaper and pensions became a thing of the past. One of the few unfortunate things is that CEOs of mainline carriers like AA took advantage of the pilots willingness to help and wrote themselves so nice fat bonuses right after the vote. I just think we all are getting played and we end up turning on each other. As long as regional flying is cheaper I think anything under 100 seats should be ok to outsource. You cant' tell me that you mainline guys want to do 6-7 legs a day. If you don't agree that's fine... I'd not mind mainline taking back the RJs because that means they will be understaffed and just staple me on the bottom of the list. I will work my way up and not have to start all over again when I do go to mainline. I do understand from a mainline guys mentality that when he/she is furloughed it sucks to see regional guys flying under their flag. But then and only then are you guys willing to fly the 6-7 legs. This is a cycle that will never end and FYI... many regionals have a clause in there to hire mainline guys ASAP when they get furloughed and not make them resign their number. And you can admit it or not... but your 121 skills came from the regional airline you once worked for.

It is so unfair to you Comair crews, isn't' it? Or is it?

Mesa pilot.

Guys,

I personally know Selcall and know his history. The point he is getting accross is the massive expansion of the regionals and continued creep into large and larger airplanes is killing many people's chances of getting to a major and is a huge detriment to the volume of mainline jobs as well as their ability to draw the larger paychecks that everyone dreams of.

His career was put on pause at the regional level a good while simply due to this fact. Selcall has paid his dues over and over again, and he was one of the top notch captains I flew with when we were at a regional.

The fact is, he's got the big picture that many of you need to have- the fact that huge regionals and them getting bigger and bigger planes is killing this career from the bottom up. Sure, you'll get into your jet quicker just by sheer volume of jobs available, but shouldn't that 89,000 pound airplane's right seat pay closer to 100 bucks an hour then 25?

I see the comair guys complaining about everything, talking about the cockiness of the delta pilots while they are as bad and many times worse than those which they accuse. This is coming from an outsider to the delta system until I got hired there. I've followed comair through the years in my journey trying to get to a major...and there are some great guys there and the unfortunate others who bought the "comair is the best of the best and delta sucks" ideal. I see similar at asa.

The fact is we should all be pushing for smaller and smaller planes at the regionals and for reverse scope creep instead of vice versa. I pushed for that while i was at the regional level... and doing the same now.

I completely understand. What does ALPA think that we regional guys can do? We need some guidance. I've already said earlier that I would be willing to have my job axed if it meant the aircraft I was flying would be mainline only. I think that regionals shouldn't exist at all - have all airplanes with "Delta xyz" or "United abc" or "US Airways mno" all under mainline with a mainline pay rate.

I'm no union leader, all I do is get the blastmails.... how do we get our unions to be steadfast in this demand?

Selcall, I’m not attacking you personally, but just wanted to comment about your opinions of Comair and the regional airlines. First of all your comments are very hypocrite, you worked for a regional like the rest of us, yet you think the regional jet is an infestation to this industry. The only difference between you and I, is that you had the opportunity to jump ship to the majors and I do not have that opportunity as of yet.

You could also use some education in diplomacy; you are not getting your point across effectively by bashing Comair/Regional airline pilots. I completely agree with you that a regional airline flying larger jets is not good for the industry. I would love for all the regional flying to go back to the majors so we all have an opportunity to jump ship just like you did.

Stop being angry at the rest of the world and take some action. I would start with anger management and diplomacy classes. Then call your union rep and talk to them about scope and bringing back the flying to the mainline.

I can completly agree with the above statement. However, I wish the mainline pilots would have held scope. I feel they left the barndoor open and horses are running wild.

Are you referring to how every Delta group got an improved non-rev package except Comair, who for some reason got a reduced package?

Are you saying that is/isn't fair?

You sure aren't referring to Comair pushing 15-year Captains back on reserve, 10-year Captains back to FO, 6-year FOs off to JFK, and 3rd year FOs getting furloughed, because we deserve every bit of that. :D

Actually, this is false, you are not an employee of Delta. Your company, delta mainline is a wholly owned subsidy of Delta, the holding company. The union has the legal right to monopolize all of the flying at its respective company. In other words, if it was your flying, legally ALPA can take back the scope without section 6 negotiations. When mainline gives away scope, they are not giving their owned flying away, they are simply removing the part of their contract that they have with delta holdings to operate those aircraft,; their contractual flying. We, as in the regionals, have an agreement with the holding company to operate the aircraft as do you as well. Your company "mainline" is subcontracted to sell the tickets, pay for fuel, etc. This is why this career is in the garbage can, management is exploiting all aspects of the law to circumnavigate the union.

The question was, should comair have priority over other pilots families at mainline, No. Comair only has contractual rights to their respective company aircraft.

I believe the whole thread started about Comair, not the rest of the regionals. With that said, when Comair was bought by Delta, for pass benefit purposes, DAL and Comair were equal (S3 with 6 S2's a year). Now, with the merger, Comair is taken down a notch. Why was it not the other way around? Why did DAL not let Compass and Mesaba have S3 status and S2's? As far as someone saying that RJ's took away routes that were mainline, why did DAL not just go out and buy RJ's and fly them with their own pilots? Cost. It was cheaper to go out and get other carriers to do it. So, don't blame the regional carriers, blame your own wonderful Delta for those routes being given to regional carriers.

As for "making the move to mainline", I loved this wonderful line on the Compass website:
“Flow Up” to Mainline

"Compass Airlines has a flow through agreement with Delta and NWA.These mainline pilot opportunities must be offered to a qualifying Compass or Mesaba Airline Pilot before anyone else."


So much for Comair being considered an equal with the new DAL wholly owned regionals! No, we just get less and less, as Compass and Mesaba gain more and more.

Thanks to your elder brothers at Comair and the RJDC, Comair is exempt from the flow. They didn't want it, you didnt get it. Re: NWA LOA 06-10 and the RJDC lawsuit settlement.

IMHO a flow is not the way to go... I don't believe you get the best pilots that way. But thats for another thread.

LOL. Ok seriously its time to jump off the Delta bandwagon. You were hired at Delta in 2007. Hence your above post is completely humourous along with the majority of your other posts. Furloughed back in 2001 now too huh? haha. You have never had any affliation with Comair or Delta until recenty, but it looks as if your elders have trained you well in your short tenure. Oh yeah, hold back on your "training dept." stories... I've already "heard" them. :D

Truest post on this thread.

What is with this RJDC? Some kind of disease some Comair pilot gave to a bunch of Delta wives?

In 6 years at Comair I still don't know what it is/does/did, but it sounds like all the Delta guys on here know all about it.

My only exposure to RJDC was some propaganda on a bulletin board in the old CVG crew room, but it was written in lawyerese and I can't read that.

Being that we are less than a week away from the big non rev change I am surprised there has not been more whining here or FI.

All of the complaining and moaning is over on the Comair Updates thread. Believe me there's no shortage of it:p