Comair Unions Pushing for DL to reconsider
 

Fight's on!:cool:

[B]Unions criticize Comair on flight benefits | Cincinnati Enquirer | Cincinnati.Com

Oh this has to be the best comment made by managment:
Um let's ask Freedom how that worked out for them!

Yeah, good luck with that! Unless they get Compass & Mesaba on board to fight this, nothing will happen.

Warning of potential negative impacts to the "Delta brand" and the operational efficiency at Comair, the airline's three main unions Friday combined forces to try to push the company and its corporate parent Delta Air Lines to reverse a decision to reduce flight benefits at the locally-based regional carrier.

What 'brand' impacts and operational efficiency impacts are they implying?

The fact that they just displaced over 400 crew member from CVG to JFK. Over 50% of those crew member have mailing addresses in the CVG area and will all be commuting from there.

Active Comair Employees now travel at a lower priority than retired delta employees and there parents. Employees unable to get to work because some delta rampers mom is going to see the big apple got on the plane before they did.

Causing more crew members to use the commuter clause or call in sick. Which forces comair to either cnx flights or call back furloughs. Causeing delta increased operations cost.

The problem with getting Compass and Mesaba on board with this campaign is that our pass benefits actually got BETTER with the new program. We always boarded AFTER mainline and their dependents. So, it'll be hard for CP and XJ employees to complain about what we're getting.

Having said that, it still doesn't make it right. IMO the best thing they could have done was make it DOH for ALL active employees regardless of mainline, wholly owned or contract. ALL active employees would board before all retirees, parents, dependents, buddies, RTC, etc. based on pure seniority. That would the most fair way.

At least Comair doesn't have it as bad as Pinnacle. Now THOSE are the folks who really have something to complain about.

I wasn't sure about it when I read that side-by-side document. So are we (XJ) boarding based on DOH along with mainline as well, then? (i.e. NW ramper hired on 5/09 has lower priority than XJ FA hired on 6/08?)

Okay...on a Delta mainline flight per the new program; DL/NWA employees/dependants, retirees and employee parents get on first as S3's. Comair, Mesaba, Compass, RHS, DCA, and other wholly owned employees/dependants are next to board per DOH as S3C. The next group is the contract DCI carriers such as Pinnacle and Chautauqua board after wholly owned.

On Comair, Compass, and Mesaba flights, It's all DOH between mainline and the w/o employees as S3C and you can on;y use you S2 passes on Comair, Comapass and Mesaba flights. Contract carriers are S3C

On contract carriers (excluding ASA and SkyWest), they board S3 with mainline per DOH. Wholly owned are next then ASA and SkyWest are last before buddy passes. On SkyWest and ASA, they board before mainline and then everyone else follows.

You guys should'nt just settle because they threw you a bone. Stand up and get onboard. We as active employees(even though we're wholly owned) should be able to board before DL retirees and parents. We are either using our pass bennifits to commute, or have limited time for personal travel. I respect that Delta wants to board first, it's their flight. No problems with that. I think the union's expectationa are a tad too high with trying to get the old rule reinstated.

You get what you get and like it, IMHO. I'm sick and tired of hearing mainline people ***** about how bad their commute has gotten since the mainline aircraft have been replaced with RJs. I realize that's due to management action and not at all your fault; however, mainline employees, their spouses, dependants, and parents should have priority on ALL former mainline routes, regardless of who flies the jet. Same goes for the jumpseat, now that I think about it.

Just because the bottom half of your seniority list has reaped the benefits of our downsizing doesn't mean you should enjoy enhanced pass travel. Again, just my opinion.... and I know my opinion will be unpopular.

Fly the NWA/DAL code? Then NWA & DAL employees should be first on your nonrev list. End of story.

So do you then believe that Ex Northwest guys and their families should get priority over you on all routes that were once flown by northwest and any of it's regional carriers?

When I travel on an RJ, I have to travel S3C. On numerous occasions I have been bumped in ATL at the last minute because a connection employee traveling on a pass with less seniority shows up. It is what it is. I accept that. I do not accept however, that an employee working for a company that's not DAL has priority over me because of DOH if we are both traveling on DAL. You get priority on your airline, I get it on mine. And in the case of my former commute to NYC, sometimes two leg commutes each way are your new way of life. Get a good book and plan accordingly. Also, get a crash pad in Kew Gardens near a subway line. Your life will be much better.

With the new plan the employee of the RJ will be getting bumped off their own plane when you show up.... is that fair in your world?

Not on Comair.

Fan-freaking-tastic response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

This is not a flame but the reality of all this is you are not a DAL employee. Just as I was not a CAL or USAirways employee when I worked for their regionals. Heck I even worked for a wholly owned USAirways regional but that still did not make them my employer, my paycheck came from the company that I actually worked for.

Here is how this works and should always work.
1. If it is Delta Metal then me and my entire family including my parents should have priority over any Pilot, flight attendant, mechanic, ramper or God knows what else that works for any other company. If your ID badge does not say Delta (this also includes the employees of NWA until SOC is complete and they all have Delta Badges) then you go behind me on my metal. Plain and simple. That is the way it should be.

2. As for Buddy passes of course you everyone including the family dog from any airline goes before them in my book.

3. Complain about the system all you want and please make sure to tell all of us at Mainline how your productivity will diminish and flights will start to cancel that your contract has your company obligated to perform because you cannot get to work. Here is a horrible truth and it's nothing personal but I want that to happen. That way more 50 seats RJ's are shipped to the desert or Africa, your contracts are nullified for lack of performance and then I don't have to hear any of you complain about travel benefits....:D because you are at Home Depot selling me paint and stuff as I remodel my house. Look at it on the bright side, you will probably be making more money there anyway.

4. Here is what I would change: If it's your company airplane (ie Pinnacle, ASA, Comair or whomever) that is flying from BHM to ATL then I think it should be DOH between the two of us for Non rev priority. If the flight is operated by another DCI carrier contracted by Delta Air Lines to operate a flight between respective cities and you work for another DCI carrier then I could care less how long you have been working at that other DCI carrier: your priority should always be after any Delta Air Lines (remember the id thing) employee and their family. Here is another tidbit they probably forgot to tell you but if my parents are traveling with me on a flight they get the same priority as I do no matter what.

You want to make things better then for you in your next contract get commuter clauses, call in honest or whatever you want to call them included. If the Capital for such items is overbearing then forget about it and always remember this.

Your Non Revenue Privileges are just that: Privileges and not Rights.

Neither you nor I have the right to dictate terms to management on what priority a contract employee should have when traveling and in the luxury of not living in the town or city in which we find ourselves gainfully employed. That is always the case. Now stop crying about this and go back to telling all of us "Mainline Guys" how we are the cause for all your other hardships in life. I find that more amusing.

Great post! But, as a side note, you do know that we (FNWA) now have DAL ID's (except for a few that have not been able to get theirs yet).

As for another poster talking about former NWA routes...YES, we should get priority. They are ALL DAL routes now.

Thanks for the clarification.

Here's the simplicity of what I think is fair:
If you're a DAL/NWA employee traveling on a DAL/NWA flight, you and your parents and who the hell cares should have priority over other companies' employees.

If you're a DAL/NWA employee traveling on a regional company's flight, you should have less priority than an employee and his/her dependents etc. of that respective company.

I think it's fair. While I would like for active employees, in general, to have priority over parents (it would help commuters) it doesn't sound fair when you consider my company is separate from yours.

Less priority than the actual employee, I have no problems. However dependents, parents...NO WAY. Reason being, MY COMPANY owns and sells the seats. My company pays for the fuel. My company controls what aircraft are on that route. My company owns that flying. DAL pilots should get priority over anyone but that particular regionals employee.

Selcall...do you think it's right then, that you would have priority on my own metal??

pssst, haven't you heard that NWA is now DAL?:eek: So therefore you mean all DAL guys and their families also get priority on EX-NWA routes ;)

His point was you're at a sub-contractor airline, It rolls down hill champ. One day when/if you make the move to mainline you will also get to enjoy the process. Chalk this up to reason number 572 not to stay at a regional :D

You are right. Your COMPANY makes the rules, not the employees. Bearing that in mind, your company is just as capable of stepping on you as they are capable of stepping on your 'c' scale brethren.

Agree 100% !

I'll help with this answer. As I said in a prior post, I don't have a problem you getting priority on your "own metal". But, IMO, since MY COMPANY OWNS and sells those seats on your "own metal" (heck, we may even own your metal and lease it to you, in some cases) then YES we should get priority.

1. I work at Comair and my ID says Delta on it. So do my airplanes, wings and paycheck.

3. Comair's performance goes to Delta's bottom line.

4. Comair doesn't own their airplanes, Delta does.

Comair does have a commuter clause.

I do agree with you on a few points, though. There are way to many RJs and they should be phased out; only if it leads to more mainline jobs. Also, you are absolutely right flight benefits are a privilege. For you and me both.

For all the red headed stepchildren of the former NWA... we're used to the boarding priority of being below mainline. In general, it hasn't been THAT bad. A missed F or Biz upgrade here or there, but generally it hasn't mattered. Where it has mattered was commuting between the hubs and with that you had to get creative or hope some mainline pilot could take the FA jumpseat if it was available. Thank goodness for our p-space commuter clause!

No loss for the f-NWA Airlinkers. But when anyone loses something they've enjoyed, it's a blow to morale. This is just another kick in the head for those at Comair and having taken kick after kick for year after year at Mesaba, I know what it's like and it 'aint fun. Do all you mainliners have to have such attitude about it? Jeez. Stop giving away scope and maybe there indeed will be a job to hope for at mainline! And quit throwing the "well, leave your regional and you can enjoy the good life." BS.

Settled! DAL gets priority.

Wow what a crazy world it would be if all companies that out sourced their work had the same entitled attitude that mainline airlines do! Why don't you just come in and take over our crew rooms as well. I mean hey you own our seats and pay us to do a job so you are paying for that crew room right? :rolleyes:


Ok so I know all the DCI's are thinking it I'm just going to say it. Why does mainline think they have the right to go at the same priority on our aircraft while we have to go behind them on their's? And don't give me this "they own the seats crap". They outsource the work to the DCI carriers just like any other company in America outsources their work. Only in aviation would someone feel entitled to the outsourced companies "facilities" ahead of the employees that work for the company the work is outsourced to.

I used to work as a supervisor for a company that did a lot of out sourced work. We did work for some very big corporations. We had some great facilities for the business I was in. If the entire world were like mainline then any joe blow that worked for the company we were doing work for could just come right in and use our facilities. Even kick me out of my office if he was hired before me. But I couldn't do the same at their place. I mean his company was paying us to do the work after all right? WRONG! This is just not how it should work. Your airplanes, your pilots, your priority. If you outsourced the work then that's your problem mainline. (in more ways than just Non-reving might I add) Only in aviation. The sense of entitlement is insane.

Flame away! The fire suit is on.

I've got to disagree with you on this one. Pass benefits are part of our compensation that IS NOT defined in our contracts. They are a part of this industry, and part of the reason that so many of us find ourselves working here. Travel benefits are common practice in our industry. What Delta can take from Comair they can just as easily, and possibly will, take from mainline. When they do, it will be done in increments, just like this time.

Heck yes...thank you sir.

Not an employee of DAL, Dal has priority, easy enough...I can live with the flippin s3c's . But I will be dam if a Dal parent or employee for that matter comes on my dci airplane on an s2 or s3, an bumps an actual employee of our airline who bust their A$$ to make your label look better. Won't change anything in the new benefits, however, as is the new pass bennies are unfair, so will my new practices. Goes both ways! Plain and simple. Problem with that.....frankly dont care....what else do i have to lose.
Noone can dictate terms to management, however we ALL have the RIGHT to voice our displeasures with decisions.

What you have to loose is your job...... As you state you cannot dictate terms to management, but if you elect to not abide by said terms then your employment could be in jeopardy.

I don't understand where this holier than thou attitude comes from, but it is not very becoming of a professional.

I don't even understand why we are even arguing about this. People say RJs are the downfall of the industry, I say its pilots themselves.

Look, I think we can all sympathize w/your commuting issues. The problem is when your fellow employees start demanding a privilege. Base closures are a fact in this industry, look at our 747-200 pilots. They got screwed and most will now have to commute to another base. That's where the attitude comes in, our pilots now have a very long commute from ANC when they are used to driving a few minutes. If anyone should be upset, it's them.

Now, your CVG pilots are faced with a short, but not easy, commute to JFK. Sorry, but that's how this industry goes. Base reductions, closures, openings and additions happen in this industry. You should plan accordingly, especially at a regional that does not control their own flying.

Holy crap..this thread went downhill quick!:rolleyes:

See my last post. You guys are demanding changes to a PRIVILEGE. Now, that's not professional.

Yes it is a privilege, but it is also a bennefit offered by HR for most employees. No one has demanded anything. We just want Delta to take a second look at the new policy and possibly getting it changed.

Huh?

Writing letters and requesting a second look at a new policy is unprofessional?

OK fine, I am unprofessional.

Next time we are in contract negotiations I won't ask for better pay and better work rules and changes that might ultimately improve the industry. It might be unprofessional.

Richie - I don't work for Comair, so back off. Closing any base sucks... yes... been there done that with Mesaba. But almost HALF of Comairs flying has been shifted to JFK. HALF! Can you imagine what kind of PITA commuting from CVG to JFK is going to become? There are only 5 flights a day between the hubs. At least there are at least 12 between MSP-DTW. The ANC base closure is equally important of a closure as the major shift in Comair operations. The plight of a mainliner isn't somehow more urgent or important than a DCI guy. The sense of entitlement is disgusting, but not new to us.

Just curious... how much of the ANC base actually live there?

It only appears that Comair has major problems with the changes, the biggest being a shift to a WORSE boarding priority. Do you expect them to be happy? Of course not. I don't think anyone is demanding anything! I think some people are just ****ed off their travel privies just a got a little worse. My whole point is that there could have been a more simple, streamlined and perhaps fair way to sort out the boarding priorities.