Of course it is, as I said, I hope we FAIL. Midwest pilots held the line on their compensation and now are about to get 70% pay cuts shoved down our throat. Sorry to hurt Duck's feelings, but that's worth a lot more than his FO position on the seniority list.

It doesn't matter what I think, but what our attorney will negotiate for paid via our merger fund.

You think AWA/US Air has a hostile workforce? Wait till Bedford screws the 400 MEH and 700 Frontier pilots.

Considering the fact you're junior even a % integration would put you on the right seat of an ERJ after the 717s are taken out of service.

Fully understand, and don't look forward to those days.

THEN QUIT ALREADY. Can't imagine a better example of someone that's all talk.

Learn how a contract works. There are no current payrates for these aircraft and they must be negotiated for. To put them into service quickly they'd most likely use current rates.

It's not a merger. You're attorney won't be negotiating anything.

Glad you're happy that some will take a pay cut from $60+/hr right seat to $37/hr.

Your scenario is one possibility. Another is a fenced off MKE w/ all RAH pilots junior to me on bidding seniority and DEN being the same with F9 pilots head of RAH pilots.

Yes that's a possibility but they'd only be junior to you on FO bidding. They'd still be able to upgrade before. I never said I was happy about anyone but considering the alternatives I don't think you should be continually badmouthing. Seriously just quit if you're any man of your word. If you don't then yea you're just full of it. Welcome aboard.

If we have to fly for your wages, that is a possibility.

That's not what Bedford said. He said, "One seniority list". We have a merger fund that can be used to hire attorneys to assist us in negotiating that integrated list. This isn't rocket science here.

No need to quit already on the street thanks to your company. So I already am a man of my word. I am sorry your dream is shattered and you will be stuck at RAH now.

Those MKE CA slots are also up for negotiation. After all you wanted a TWA style integration, so we can have X number of CA slots at MKE per a formula like TWA has at SLT.

Bedfords plan would all go down in flames if the majority of FRONTIER & MIDWEST pilots just quit

I know its A LOT easier said than done, especially outside looking in

How does that work? So his 94 seat 190's in MKE can be flown at their current negotiated rates? 75% of the Midwest pilots are already "quit".

I meant more the FRONTIER guys.............

I see. I certainly hope the "significant scope reduction" does not come to fruition that Bedford wants in their CBA.

Yes, he is.

Never miss a good opportunity to shut up...

I can tell you (second hand) reps from Frontier, Delta and Republic were sizing up the Midwest hangers last week.

Why all three?

Why is Delta letting Republic develope a competing 100 seat airline with a Delta code-share?

Why doesn't Delta partner with Republic in this deal?

How does this benefit Delta?

Is there more to this purchase by Republic?

To ask you again, you would still feel that way even if you are now upgrading at a career airline?

It would be difficulty for that type of integration after the seniority integration act passed in 2008.

You are confusing the business transaction with a seniority list integration. The business transaction may not be a merger but that doesn't mean there wont be a seniority list merger.

When will people learn, stop arguing with Duck. He is a lone voice that does not speak for me or any other RAH pilot.

As for an integration, with little thought on this idea, relative % seems to be the way to go. Keep your seat in your plane(only seems to apply to F9 and the airbus). I would not know how Midwest pilots could make the transition to the 190 as they would be required to fly the 717 till they came off line. That would be a sticky point.

I would love to hear other ideas and the whole "staple" statement needs to be shut down. That is unproductive.

This maybe the Delta plan.

Don't forget the 275 furloughed Midwest pilots and 100 furloughed Republic pilots.

And the 50+ over at Frontier? What about the 100+ at RAH? Work them all. Get everyone off the street.

I think the "most fair" integration would be where everyone is unhappy. Of course this will probably drag on for years, probably what the company wants, who knows, good luck everyone! Mod Turb at all levels!

Would ToiletDuck support using the Bankruptcy court to set aside parts of Frontier's CBA? After all they're bought and paid for right? Part of the reason they were in bankruptcy was that they paid too much money for good salary and work rules, eh? I mean, hell if they had RAH's payrates they could be the ones buying airlines now.

I hope this is a wake up call to Mainline airlines -- mainline airlines are hemmhoraging money but regionals can be raking it in. Are those 2 points connected? Does outsourcing* REALLY save that much money?

* Commuter airlines are different, but how many of those still exist?

[quote=powrful1;634028]I think the "most fair" integration would be where everyone is unhappy. Of course this will probably drag on for years, probably what the company wants, who knows, good luck everyone! Mod Turb at all levels![/qu

THERE IS NO OTHER WAY
DOH:cool:

I hear you 80. What's to stop RAH from using the A320's on the old Delta Shuttle routes that they now fly? After all Midwest has a nice get out of scope free card with Delta and thus I think it's brand is VERY important to Bedford.

The coming months will be telling. Does Delta continue it's very one-sided code-share with Midwest? Do they expand it? Does LM continue to ask his constituents for more scope relief?

I work at RAH. I think you should keep your seat, base, and position. For a time. Eventually, via a fence, RAH pilots should be able to bid that. It's only fair. I'm sure you read the letter from your union stating that, you either accept what happens with integration, or maybe not have a job at all. I believe they also said that without this rescue from BK, that you would be unemployed. Just step back and think. I know you want everything to stay the same for yourself, but you gotta give up something if your being saved from not having a job at all. Like I said before, I think it would work best for everyone if there were a fence involved for a set amount of time, but not very long. You must remember that our contract protects us and you of this happens from us being whipsawed against eachother. We have to work together as one pilot group to make this work.

How would you feel if Southwest was buying you out of BK? Would you still want your rate, base, and equip? I'd rather them aquire you than deal with all the grief and bull this is going to cause. I don't care if I ever fly a bus here. I'd rather it be at mainline. I don't think I'll have that chance though, so I'd like the chance to bid for it, since my company aquited them. It just seems fair to me. But, I'm sure evryone will continue to share thier opinion just like I did. I'm just trying to be objective, rather than spread hate like many on this board.

Flex,

I'd want nothing more than to have you and all F9 pilots retain their seat, base, and pay. I have no idea how an integration would take place or even what would be fair. Personally, I kinda hope southwest comes in and outbids us and you all end up over there with a DEN base while retaining their seat.

As another RAH pilot I can say that reading our in-house boards, Chance speaks from a VERY small minority. Most seem to agree that a % integration, DL/NW style is the way to go, with a timed fence. I'd say there's a 0% chance of a flush-bid where guys get displaced out of base/equipment.

Most of us agree that in this scenario everyone wins. Guys at the purchased entities keep their base/seat/pay, and we get enhanced pay for our equipment and the chance to bid to better things in the future.

I don't hear any of the rational voices calling for the ability to bid guys out of their seats/bases.

The only sticking point I see is what to do about furloughs. I do hear many make the argument that those on furlough be stapled below ours on furlough. If you have no base/equipment currently, some say our guys should get their jobs back first, since its our money that's funded all this. I tend to agree with that, but don't expect that F9 or MW guys would.

You've spent months bashing Bedford and now you're sticking to every word. Regardless of what he says there's one thing that is concrete and that's our language on RAH acquiring other airlines. Any cert. purchased goes on our seniority list. Regardless of whatever funds you have and lawyers sitting there it's plain as day in the RAH contract that you will be on one seniority list. The only way around this is for BB to sell the newly acquired lists. One way or another both Frontier and Midwest can expect to join the RAH seniority list.

If you'd like to know what I think you could simply ask. Would I support using BK to set aside parts of F9's CBA? I don't want to see any paycuts anywhere. Why would you assume otherwise? When have I ever mentioned anything stating such? All I've said is that these two airlines were about to put everyone on the street. That's been altered because they are now purchased by RAH. I don't expect my QOL to go down because of this. If it does that negates the reasons for having a union in the first place. I'm sorry but I expect our union to look after it's own first just like I expect F9's to look after them. There's no "here's a little gratuity" this is life. Just like XJT hen SKYW was putting a bid on them they fought tooth and nail for what they were entitled to based on their previously negotiated contract. It's no different here. Airlines have folded left and right over this pass year and it's sad but I still expect our contract to be followed. The second you allow and exception it all goes down the drain.

On a side note F9 pays less than CAL, JUBL, SWA, etc on equal size equipment. I'm not trying to be hard headed about this but there's no reason RAH pilots should be put behind F9 or midwest guys automatically. Completely my opinion but doesnt seem right. We have guys on the street and since they've been paying dues since day one they deserve to come back here first. I don't think a TWA style of setup is bad at all and I think they'd be lucky to get it. Take notice I used words like ME and I before any armchair QB's start trying to say I'm speaking on everyone else.

Already, the cries of " WE BOUGHT YOU " are raising their ugly heads. Shades of Fedex/Tiger, Allegheny/Piedmont, North Central/Hughes Air West/Southern/Republic/Northwest

I feel like I'm in the movie, Ground Hog Day

Are you kidding? Wasn't the AA/TWA deal so bad that congress passed laws to make sure that never happened?

I'm not sure and I didn't mean in it's entirety. I mean how the TWA guys maintained their seniority in STL in their original equipment regardless of their overall seniority placement on the master list. Seems like a good deal that someone being acquired would be glad to have. They stay on their equipment and maintain their position in base.

Not a Republic, Midwest, or Frontier guy just an innocent bystander. I guess the most fair would be % intergration with a fence that expires in five years or something. I'm sorry for the Midwest and Frontier guys that become defacto regional pilots. Republic's contract doesn't have payrates for those aircraft, so we can all hope that they will be able to negotiate industry standard rates for those airframes. Mostly Republic has industry standard (albiet regional) payrates for their aircraft (the exception being 190's).

If frontier or Midwest guys feel they're getting a raw deal solely by being bought by Republic then they should consider the fact their companies already failed to the point that a regional was capable of buying them. Let's also remember that it isn't Republic guy's fault that Midwest or Frontier was bought out... that's MANAGEMENT'S fault and something pilots really had no control over. I'm not connected to republic but I have a hard time believing they're jumping up and down excited about the amount of DRAMA this just brought to their jobs.

I don't understand why pilots always insist on being their own worst enemies. If life gives you lemons you're supposed to make lemonaide... and then sell it to the highest bidder... that's capitalism. Midwest, Frontier and Republic guys need to start talking about how their going to get industry leading pay rates.

Sounds like two conflicting arguments. Which is it Toilet? Are you the poor picked on little guy that now won't upgrade for 14 years, or are you the beacon of financial stability?

My heart goes out to all the Frontier and Midwest guys. Hope everything turns out for you.

Does teamsters make RAH pilots pay dues from day 1, or is there a probationary period and you don't pay dues till you're off it?

Frontier and Midwest were not in the same class as Republic. If you were a Midwest or Frontier captain, you were never going to quit to go somewhere else. Frontier and Midwest were respectable companies where a pilot could hang his hat at the end of his career with pride. The same cannot be said for Republic. I am not sure why ToiletDuck is so concerned with the furloughed guys from Republic. They would be making $1600/month if they were still working. That's barely $350/week. $350/week comes out to $8.75/hour if you are working a 40 hour week. I am sure these pilots are having no problem breaking even. The most junior active Midwest pilot has been with the company for over 15 years and makes $101/hour. Let's merge him in with the 600 hour furloughed Republic pilot who would make $23/hour if recalled. This is what ToiletDuck is suggesting. This will not end good for the Midwest or Frontier pilots. This might result in a little growth for the Republic pilots, but will not result in better work rules or better pay. In the end, I have to agree with the pilots that think this is the beginning of the end of Republic. They are following a proven bad business model.

It's soooooooooo easyyyyyy "GNR"
 

I'm not on here often, but man am I growing tired of hearing people ***** about the same old thing all the time. There are certain things I would like to say to most of you on here but the moderators would have a field day with it, even though it's just me exercising my freedom of speech. Sometimes you just need to say things a certain way to get the message across. There is being politically correct though, hmmm that.

Anyways, to most of you bashing RAH, you immature adults, you grown up children, you people with no self respect, and no realistic view on life whatsoever, shame on you. Yea, this is harsh, and yea most of you will still, after reading this, continue doing the same thing, and it is not because you don't know any better, it's simply because you are nothing more than a bitter individual, for whatever reason you may be such a person, who will not admit, or even look at where you are, what you have done to make your or our lives any better, but feel so much better about your individual self for that fraction of a second where you put yourself on a pedestal you don't belong on anyways.

This industry has been going down the drain for a while now. It's not one companies fault, everybody is responsible, yet nobody is willing to face that responsibility. You can't possibly expect one pilot group to stand up for all of you. It would be nice though to have someone sacrifice themselves for your selfish needs. And you can copy and paste this anyways you like, everyone here is a selfish mofo.

You want to live in a capitalist, free market type of system. What did you expect was going to happen after deregulation? What, you though they were going to play nice, and divide everything equally, make it nice for you and me, and throw them in there somewhere. Really? This is it people, people who make money DO NOT CARE about people who need money. You and I need money. They, they make money by making labor cheaper. The moment you realize that is the moment you will want to stand up and do something about it.

At that moment you will find out that the RLA was made up by those same people. This was, and is, their way of controlling us. Do you really think it is a coincidence that management does not care if they brake their agreements with us. We just renegotiate when they brake it, no big deal. However, we are petrified to break ours. What will the goverment do when we all say NO? They will see there is a problem. it should be the people who run this country afterall, and not special interests.

When every pilot on this site is ready to go and strike, do what needs to be done to better our profession, fights for what they are actually worth, and nothing else, then I, and every pilot in this country will join you. OK, there are always some douchebags willing to ruin it for all, but I sure as hell hope there are more of us educated ones. This whole blaming individual pilot groups for flying what their company has acquired through others weaknesses is just bs. I will give up my job forever, if everyone else is willing to do the same, at the same time, while we fight for what is righteously ours. However, asking me to quit my job so that you can say, well I do have a wife and kid once you take over that same flying, will not cut it.

See yourself in this reality for a sec. and then pounce on my post. I'm pretty sure not much will change, and you babies will go back to what you've been doing before, it is the easy thing to do...

I am in for the long run. Are you willing to sacrifice your well being?

my gut feeling on this whole midwest deal from the start was that there was going to be some fancy codeshare b.s. to try and get larger/cheaper access to lift at the new Delta without scope relief from the pilots. I could be wrong but i really think the big picture has been missed by some because so much attention was placed on the MDX pilots plight. the RAH management is clever and I don't think this is a play to be independent. there is money from somewhere that links this all together and is making it happen. I believe it will take time to see the real scope of this collective screwing that is getting started now.

Top ten thoughts.

1. I work at RAH and Im so sick that im going to quit

2. Toilet Duck(Chance) shut up, you're making us look bad, learn how to shoot a visual into DCA and then talk.

3. This is not our (RAH pilots) fault. Yeah its easy to be a keyboard warrior but keep in mind, only 10 percent of any given pilot group gets on these boards. Most of us are baffled and dont know what to think of all this **** thats going on.

4. Im putting in a two weeks notice, in 14 days i will be stoned, drunk, growing my hair out and getting my first tattoos.

5. To all Midwest and Frontier pilots, im sorry this is happening but this is happening. I dont plan on beeing here when all of this pans out, but if i am here, i will treat each and every one of you with the respect you deserve and i will hope you will do the same with us. Its going to be a rough road ahead.

6. Toilet Duck, shut up.

7. I wish i woud have gotten an MBA and got into airline management instead of beeing a pilot.

8. Im starting a Band!

9. Someone build a time machine and go back to 1978 and talk to some peeps about "deregulation"

10. Toilet Duck, shut up!!