No, that is not the attitude.

I'll take responsibility for my actions. And I wasn't blaming anyone, I was merely asking others to take responsibility for their actions.

Lorenzoism
 

Does anyone else smell something fishy about this convoluted deal? I suspect hidden motives and beneficiaries.

What is a "fair and equitable" merger of a National Airline and a Regional Airline?

Well of course, there are countless ways you can spin this. Like Lorenzo, Bedford will find a way to maximize this to his benefit no matter who gets hurt in the process. For all we know the Frontier thing might be a way to get them out of Denver (as previously stated by some), sell he assets and the employees go bye bye, while UA takes care of RAH through their CPA. As far as the Midwest thing goes, well, I'm not sure what the reverend is go in mind there, but SWA and Airtran are already moving in on that turf, which means that even with the POS rates he pays his pilots on the 190, he's going to have to get very creative to compete in the big leagues. But again, like Lorenzo, Bedford will find a way to make money on it, regardless of what it may do to his workforce or anyone else for that matter.

...and you all thought that spineless deals only happened in wall street! :rolleyes:

No, you're not blaming anyone.

I really envy what RAH is doing.

I don't. I am so glad I don't work for RAH.

BB doesnt do anything without okaying it with his mainline overlords. I think in a year or two, we'll look back on this and it will be as convoluted as a conspiracy novel.

Maybe it has already been said but...

Given that RAH pilots are in negotiations it is now up to them as a pilot group to demand industry-leading wages. Before they accept a new contract it is not fair to blame them for decisions their management made.

The recent growth made by RAH proves they are not in financial trouble and it's now up to the pilots of RAH to galvanize and demand fair pay.

It's disheartening what's happened at Midwest and Frontier but right now RAH pilots have the opportunity to step up to the plate and move forward in the right direction. Given the media spotlight on regional pay, an NMB that respects the RLA, and the deep pockets of RAH, and they have every right to hold out until they are paid at least JetBlue wages.

Anything short of that would prove that RAH pilots aren't willing to stand up for this profession, and such bitterness towards them would THEN be deserved.

Good post! Agree 100%.

With their labor costs, they'll be stting a tough standard for others to compete with for E-190 flying. Hopefully, the other regionals will continue to raise the bar as they move up to larger aircraft. Longevity will help too. 5 years from now the majority of current RJ captains will still bea their carriers and in the 10-15 scale that should put most close to or even above $100K/year.........and that's good.

They're the trailblazers for the future just as Comair was for the '90's.

with all the RAH threads within the last month, this has been said (by me numerous times) but it falls on deaf ears. Why bother reasoning with people on here:rolleyes:

They have their opinion about RAH and frankly Scarlet, I don't give a damn.

I agree 100%. However, it's discouraging to see RAH pilots state that they feel JB wages are unreasonable and ridiculous. Perhaps now that BB is willing to shell out the $$$ for two Major Airlines they will think otherwise. We can only hope.

I honestly must have missed that post...can you steer me toward it?

Yeah, go back to the E190 thread. When it was first announced that they would be flying 190s for YX, I suggested anything less then JB rates is unacceptable. I was scoffed at by several.

Well then by ALL MEANS throw out a blanket statement such as all RAH pilots are afraid to ask for JB rates or better. Yes, yes, most definitely a 2000+ number of pilots is represented completely by a few on here who "scoffed" at your suggestion. Well done.

Would you like to quote me and show where I made a blanket statement of ALL RAH pilots? You can't, because I didn't. Some or "a few" qualifies as RAH pilots.:rolleyes:

I didn't read it that way. Try not to take things so personally!

Yep, it sure is up to them. I said it else where, the RAH MEC/NC has a ton on their plate being in negotiations with the climate this industry is, and these acquisitions aren't helping them any.

This has the potential to screw the RAH pilot group, just like BB did last time. He'll have their NC so tied up in scope protection and seniority integration issues that something is going to have to give.

I'm not underestimating them, and sincerely hope they can pull it out.

I think the newest and most immediate obstacle is getting the Frontier guys on the seniority list. If BB goes after their already cut pay then arguing for more on a 190 won't be easy. The F9 guys need to hop on the boat so the MEC here can negotiate those wages as well while at the same time offering them a little protection from the "hand of God".

I'm financially stable because I live within my means. That doesn't mean my means are as glamorous as others. I don't know what a new vehicle feels like, I work on the farm with my father when I have several days off, and I also come to work here at my airline with aspirations of making more. Just because I held two jobs in college and have basically no debt doesn't mean I'm rolling in cash it just means I haven't stretched myself beyond my means. There's nothing contradictory about it. Being financially stable and being able to afford to do the things you want are two different animals. I'm not worried about money, ie don't have $1000 a month school loans, but I can't exactly go down and take the boat fishing every time I have a few days off or join a golf coarse. Those statements are also taken out of context when used with a "Micheal Moore" cut and paste job. It is possible to live just fine as an FO and I am. That doesn't mean I want to be here for the next decade.

This is a very delicate issue. And I'm certain the average Frontier pilot does not owe anybody a damn thing.... They don't need to hop on any boat. RAH pilots need to PROVE to F9 pilots the boat is worth hopping on.

This is a chance for the RAH pilots to take a good look in the mirror and decide if they want to elevate this profession or top out on concessionary wages. It starts right now...


We collectively can elevate this profession to our actual worth. PM me if you like.

You misunderstood me. My point wasn't a "Take it or leave it" deal in integration. BB is going after the F9 group prior to them joining us using the fact they are in BK as leverage. As a separate pilot group under a different union there's no help the Teamsters here can offer. Once Frontier pilots are on the RAH seniority list, however it happens, the payscales for the aircraft they fly must be negotiated for by our(including frontier) union. This will take leverage away from the company and give it to the pilots. The aircraft can't be operated without agreed upon wages(unless i'm reading things wrong). By having the Frontier guys get on our seniority list quickly there is no means for the company to whipsaw with. BB is currently wanting scope removed from F9. If that happens he could say "take a cut on the bus or we put 190s on it" which we all know is a bad deal. With you guys on the RAH seniority that can't happen. That in itself is proof enough. One way or another the seniority list must be merged per the contact it would be beneficial to both groups for it to happen before he uses each one as weapons against the other in my opinion. I don't feel any F9 guy owes us anything. Of course that goes both ways.

First off.. just to to clear I'm not an F9 pilot. I'm a pilot concerned with the direction of this industry and I'm considerably concerned to be honest.

There is plenty help the Teamsters/RAH pilots can give us all... it is a matter of RAH pilots acknowledging this...

It seems there is a dedicated group of skilled unionized individuals who happen to work for a VERY sucessful management group. This SAME management group appears to undervalue your worth. Your pilot group is in NEGOTIATIONS. Do not sell yourself short.

It's not up to the F9 group to join the list... And if they happen to choose to relieve scope and effectively surrender their rights, that is their collective right. I guarantee they'll have exercised every alternative possible prior to doing so.

But recognize this: under no circumstance will I accept a pilot's answer, "It's not my fault". It is up to each pilot group to step up to the plate, regardless of union.

I fought and continue to fight...

...................

Thanks to your brilliant leader, thats exactly where you'll be.

I don't think Diego Marodona has anything to do with this.

Where do you want to be?

LOL that's awesome man!!!!

I second that, Bedford basically opened the door to the possible demise of the domestic market flown by mainline carriers. I truly hope that this whole venture goes up in smoke, because if it succeeds, 10-15 years from now there will be very few narrows at the majors, and "regional" airlines will be as far as most will go.

Dude you WILL be there for the next decade, and it will be in the right seat. Like it or not, that is what republic has turned into, a wanna be POS LCC.

Here's what I don't understand. (and maybe someone besides doilet tuck could reply) How can rah keep all current rah pilots, f9, and midwest guys. From what I see, they are shooting themselves in the foot with contracts, and those will die off. When they do, huge surplus of guys on the list.

BTW, I don't look down at rah pilots. td is one very vocal annoying voice that nobody takes serious.

its golf course genius.

WOAH WOAH WOAH.........WOAH. Meatballs? BANNED?

It's unlikely that they will be able to keep all of the pilots from all three airlines. Assuming the RAH pilots don't cave on their contract, and they demand integration of all three pilot groups, strictly looking at the staffing numbers at both Midwest and Frontier, a single list under the RAH staffing rules will require less crews per frame on average. Not to mention the fact that right off the bat the 717's are going away, and I've yet to see whether or not they will replace the ones on property only, or the entire original fleet, which would leave out the Midwest furloughs depending on integration guidelines.

Yeah, its going to be messy no matter what. Hopefully midwest guys don't get too screwed. I guess the ONLY good that can come of this is getting a great contract, but I don't really see that happening.

Is that a serious question? How many people go to a regional wanting to be a lifer?

Yes, it is a serious question. Not many go to regionals planning to spend the rest of their career there, but life has a funny way of happening to people when it comes to their wants. Major terrorist attacks, major economic downturns, your airline buying a whole bunch of Airbusses...all can influence one's career path.

A decade from now, where do you want to be? If not RAH, where?

And the follow-up: a decade from now, where do you think you'll be?

Just saw that Dos Equis commercial and it's possibly one of the funniest commercials I've ever seen:D

Well you said yourself life has a funny way of happening. That works both ways from where someone is to where they plan on going. I don't know very many that came to the regionals wanting to stay but the industry keeps taking turns. Where I'm wanting to be will depend on the state of the industry at that time however I'm pretty sure it isn't in the right seat of an ERJ making $45k.

Sorry about the misspell. Also it's golf course.